Updates on the NYC Rider vs SUV

[Ssky0078]

I thought since the other thread was shut down because of the back and forth that we could at least post a new thread and keep it to posting news about the case. If the mods don't think this is Fz or motorcycle related enough, then they can shut it back down (also why I put it in The Bar). As a motorcyclist I think it is important because many of us go on group rides.

The most up to date story has another one of these goons getting arrested.

Undercover cop and civilian in motorcycle assault case arrested | 7online.com

 

[pookamatic]

Curious - regarding the SUV driver's ramifications... he has no criminal liability (police are not pursuing him for running over that biker), but he still is facing the high-profile lawyer from the guy who got hit?

Is this still correct?

 

[Ssky0078]

Curious - regarding the SUV driver's ramifications... he has no criminal liability (police are not pursuing him for running over that biker), but he still is facing the high-profile lawyer from the guy who got hit?

Is this still correct?

As far as I know yes, no criminal liability. I seriously doubt the SUV driver will get any charges against him at any time. For the charges that they are putting against the goons, charges against the SUV would harm those cases.

 

[VEGASRIDER]

I heard the person who got runned over didn't even have a license to ride. Suspended license from the state of Massachusetts, he shouldn't even been on the road from the first place.

 

[kenh]

As far as I know yes, no criminal liability. I seriously doubt the SUV driver will get any charges against him at any time. For the charges that they are putting against the goons, charges against the SUV would harm those cases.

Maybe one our members who is more knowledgeable in law could chime in, but even if no criminal charges are filed by the DA I believe he may still end up in civil court facing a high profile attorney. Remember the OJ fiasco.
:banghead:

 

[SweaterDude]

i finally saw this BS on the news last night on Anderson Cooper i believe. heres what i took away:

the SUV driver is at fault for a Hit and Run by definition

The group ride whether a club or not becomes a gang as soon as violent or malicious activity arises.

in any state, when in your vehicle, the classification of the vehicle is identical to a "homestead" and assumes the same circumstantial ruling as would occur an incident at one's place of residence (apt, condo, house, etc.). therefore when under threat in the driver's homestead (which if a MC gang surrounded my car with my toddler inside.... yeah, except when my window woulda been bashed in i would have fired shots) the driver has the right to defend himself and any others under threat in the car - ie. driving over the DB in front of him to escape the situation.

these are the simple facts of the case(s) any commentary or opinions from the debate panel or tv personalities is just fluff. especially from the british chick (not that i dont respect the British) who has no business discussing american law.


personally i feel that in that sort of situation the majority of drivers probably would have freaked an done the same if no something similar. the other argument i heard was that the bikers thought that the SUV driver was driving "crazy" and thats why they boxed him in. this is also terrible logic since car>bike in this sort of situation and the sensible idea is to get as much difference as possible between you and the car as a biker. i dont want to get involved in the politics but i see very little fault (including the Hit and Run bit) fron the driver of the SUV. especially since the "justice" issued by the bikers was vigilanteism which is illegal, even from this "undercover cop" who was also riding like a f***ing dumb**s.

 

[Neal]

Really?? now they are arresting one of the cops because he chased down and helped subdue the fleeing felon in the SUV.

Shocking the absurd behavior you have to resort to hold on the to irrational believe it is okay to crash into someone then flee running over to more people, as long as it is a vehicle you don't like.


Good job officer, shame we live in a garbage society.

 

[Don't Panic]

Really?? now they are arresting one of the cops because he chased down and helped subdue the fleeing felon in the SUV.

Shocking the absurd behavior you have to resort to hold on the to irrational believe it is okay to crash into someone then flee running over to more people, as long as it is a vehicle you don't like.


Good job officer, shame we live in a garbage society.

Enough... This thread is info only.

 

[lawlberg]

I thought since the other thread was shut down because of the back and forth that we could at least post a new thread and keep it to posting news about the case. If the mods don't think this is Fz or motorcycle related enough, then they can shut it back down (also why I put it in The Bar). As a motorcyclist I think it is important because many of us go on group rides.

The most up to date story has another one of these goons getting arrested.

Undercover cop and civilian in motorcycle assault case arrested | 7online.com

Glad to see it's back alive.

I understand that it can be frustrating for the mods to see a thread bounce back and forth, going on and on for days covering the same topic, but I also think that there's still value in that thread. As the story develops, more information comes out, it's nice to have a place where I can discuss/read opinions on it that aren't my dumb coworkers that are currently cowering in fear over every scooter that rides past them. I haven't read every post, I followed the first half of them or so pretty closely and then I've skimmed the rest as my interest in the matter dwindled.

It's a thread that will die on it's own, nobody should be upset enough to leave the forums or have a bad taste in their mouth about it's members because of opinions in this thread. Like all things, people will lose interest in it slowly and quit reading the thread. The people who are adamantly defending their views may never accept the other side, but shutting them up eliminates the chances for witty sarcastic comments about how it was a 'well orchestrated hit' because only the 'hate crime inducing' driver was injured while the toddler and wife were unharmed.

I don't know the specifics of why the mods shut it down, other than that it became a divisive thread, but I do know that this forum sometimes comes off as being 'too politically correct' - quick to distill any comment that could hurt another members feelings. I by no means am promoting hate speak or insulting other members, I just think people have tougher skin than the mods give us credit for.

//refraining from commenting on the LEO involvement in this until I know more.

 

[lawlberg]

Enough... This thread is info only.

There's no way this will be info only - even if that was by design.

Any good info will have a source, that source will have a bias, and whoever posts that will know good and well which way the bias is going. You'll wind up with competing 'facts' gathered from all corners of the internet presented as the truth/info on the story.

Also I think it's impossible for members of this forum to post comments on something without letting their opinions and emotions get involved.

 

[FB400]

I've held comment all this time. It's just been too painful set of events to keep hashing out. I don't feel well informed by reading any more of this sh i t

What happened that day is iconic and is such in an egregious,evil way. People will forever remember bikers are being violent scumbugs no matter where you live in the world - no one escapes that label, that is if you are going to continue to ride and if you dare venture out in a group of 8+.. good luck. If you don't think you deserve that label - you are exactly right. That is what makes this event so painful to endure and will continue on for a long time.

I hope the full wrath of justice hammers down on all of these lawless pricks. Were there some innocent guys just out there having fun? - sure, no doubt. But for those who are guilty of crimes and are brought into court I hope they receive punishment to the fullest extent of the law and that the public continues to watch this story so feverishly to see the bad guys didn't get away. Hopefully not this time.

 

[dschult2]

I'll admit I have not read all the articles on this case but do we even know what actually started all this or are we just guessing based on what was seen from the beginning of the amateur video. Like did Lien cut off a motorcyclist and he took objection or did a motorcyclist cut off Lien trying to keep up with the group. Until we know all the facts all this is just conjecture.

 

[MakersTeleMark]

Here's some analysis (language NSFW):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6mUgFmZ8dBo

 

[Neal]

Here's some analysis (language NSFW):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6mUgFmZ8dBo

This "analysis" is on is good enough to be national media, which is of course means it is factually wrong, ignorant, and stupid.

The guy he is ranting about in his picture is not the rider who got run over.

The guy who got run over was a bystander wearing a blue and white leather Alpine Star Jacket.

 

[dschult2]

Just got done watching some more footage from the guys helmet cam. Not sure if it was from before the incident or just another group ride but all I can say is wow!, these guys are d**k's! No wonder we all get a bad rap when you have people like this out there running quads in the road, popping wheelies on the freeway on dirt bikes, cutting in and out of traffic, and a general disregard for all traffic laws. Still not sure what happened to start it all but I wager a guess that the bikers didn't do anything to diffuse the situation. I guess we should use this as a reminder that when we're out there we represent all our fellow bikers and to try to be as courteous as possible to other vehicles. FYI here is a shorter video if interested.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq9tqBARvAQ]Black Range Rover Runs Over Bikers in NYC (Original) Part 2 HD - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Ssky0078]

Maybe one our members who is more knowledgeable in law could chime in, but even if no criminal charges are filed by the DA I believe he may still end up in civil court facing a high profile attorney. Remember the OJ fiasco.
:banghead:

I had asked an attorney, he worked in the prosecutors office for several years, then has switched over to private practice defense attorney.

He said specifically that they will add charges, and take away charges depending on how cooperative these guys are and who was really responsible for the most damage. The DA's want the best examples of Justice for the publicity.

This guy personally thought it was a stretch for them to charge Mr. Cruz with Unlawful Imprisonment, and thinks likely that charge will be dropped and something else added later. In order for unlawful imprisonment to be successful the DA has to prove there is a barrier preventing free movement.

Also, my business partner is an attorney, and she has been answering a lot of my questions about it. Do we have any lawyers on the forum? That would be sweet to get more info.

 

[Ssky0078]

I'll admit I have not read all the articles on this case but do we even know what actually started all this or are we just guessing based on what was seen from the beginning of the amateur video. Like did Lien cut off a motorcyclist and he took objection or did a motorcyclist cut off Lien trying to keep up with the group. Until we know all the facts all this is just conjecture.

From another forum, someone had found this little commentary

“As a trucker that would deliver in north jersey and New York I am familiar with these groups. I can hopefully clarify a few things. First the initial “accident” is part of a game they play. They ride in a huge group and will operate together to slow down traffic.

Next they pick out high end vehicles targeting people with families in them, the targets will usually be white or Asian. Then one of the riders will do a “brake check” and stop suddenly in front of the target vehicle causing a minor bump. In some cases they will just roll back into their target vehicle. They will then mob the vehicle demanding money and or begin attacking the person inside. It is their practice to also slash the tires to prevent the vehicle from escaping.

Truckers are well aware of them and are advised not to stop. You can clearly see in the video how they are well practiced in this style of attack. The police in NY have backed off them after an officer ran one down using his vehicle a few months back. The video was all over the net so I advise you to check it out.

These “bikers” ride dirt bikes and sport bikes very few of which are street legal and even fewer have plates. They run red lights, stop signs, and have no regard for the law. If you are ever in this situation do not stop, immediately call the police and do whatever you have to to keep them from boxing you in. NEVER leave the scene of an accident if you are not under direct threat!!! Only run if you have no other choice, and again immediately call the police.

This is not rare by any means, the only reason this incident got any attention is because of the helmet cam video being posted on the net. If you see anyone in this situation, call the police.

Make no mistake confusing these punks with true bikers. You will rarely if ever see a member of these gangs on a Harley. Do not for a minute blame true bikers for this kind of behavior. Bikers like those involved in the 2 million Bikers to DC Rally are American Patriots and would be among the first to come to your aid.

A final note, always be aware of motorcycles and share the road. Check your mirrors and don’t ride anyone’s bumper, motorcycles have a much smaller profile then a car and are harder to see.”

ninjapundit: Motorcycle Brake Check Attack

 

[Nelly]

I thought since the other thread was shut down because of the back and forth that we could at least post a new thread and keep it to posting news about the case. If the mods don't think this is Fz or motorcycle related enough, then they can shut it back down (also why I put it in The Bar). As a motorcyclist I think it is important because many of us go on group rides.

The most up to date story has another one of these goons getting arrested.

Undercover cop and civilian in motorcycle assault case arrested | 7online.com

Ita a very impotant subject and just to clarify it was closed because it turned into a slagging match. There are lots of other internet sites where members can hapily abuse each other. Respect for each other is very important. Any thread that breeches the forum rules will be closed regardless of its importance.

 

[Ssky0078]

Here's some analysis (language NSFW):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6mUgFmZ8dBo

Great analysis, although he did make one major mistake in that Mr. Cruz was the one that caused the accident, not Mr. Miese.

"crushed them bikes like aluminum foil and sent that ass to the recycling bin."

"Why don't we have a 911 tape of one of you bikers calling 911, because you wanted to handle sht yourself. Instead of sht getting handled your boy got handled." "In the real world you F*** with people, you get F***'ed with."

"People always want to do some dumb sht then when they get F***'ed up they want to play victim, some beotches."

Bahahaha, Great find for an opinion video on the topic.

 

[Ssky0078]

my dumb coworkers that are currently cowering in fear over every scooter that rides past them.

I had a cager practically jump out of their skin today as I went past them. I was in the HOV lane and to my right this car suddenly slows down. I look back and they start pacing me from 150-200 feet back. I was in the other lane than them and was wondering WTH they were doing, then I remembered the video. Evidently all sport bikes are the same.