ChevyFazer
Redneck MacGyver
Is there any benefit to using that over good ole fashion anti seize?
Uneven brake wear?
- Thread starter jrevans
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Is there any benefit to using that over good ole fashion anti seize?
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Anti seize is used for metal against metal. It isn't made for rubber products (seals) and could possibly cause detrimental problems to the rubber depending on what its made of. Besides that, it wouldn't be appropriate as you really don't have metal against metal inside the caliber, the piston rides in the middle of the seals, thus no metal to metal contact.
If you just bring up the spec sheet on the Permatex, it specifically addresses brake seals and pistons.
I suspect any brand BRAKE SPECIFIC grease will work as well. I've just used the one listed above and also a ceramic Permatex brake grease (next level up- a bit stickier it seemed to me) [ame=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0018PSASU]Amazon.com: Permatex 24125 Ceramic Extreme Brake Lubricant - 8 oz.: Automotive[/ame] .
On my 07, the fronts were starting to drag some at arounnd 6,000 miles(original seals). I took it apart, everything looked fine, re-greased the seals/pistons, 200% better. About 13,000 miles now and still not dragging...
Being the seals are now 5 years old, next time they start dragging, I'll be replacing the seals (with brake grease too)...
BTW, most automotive stores sell brake specific grease(in small packets besides the larger can). IMHO, I'd stick with a large name producer..
ChevyFazer
Redneck MacGyver
That makes perfect sense
Lol I have absolutely no shame in admitting that brakes even though they are fairly simple are my one mechanical downfall, primarily because I haven't messed with them much other than changing pads and shoes.
Lol I have absolutely no shame in admitting that brakes even though they are fairly simple are my one mechanical downfall, primarily because I haven't messed with them much other than changing pads and shoes.
Last edited:
Jrevans,
I'd strongly suggest you look closely at the shim set you're using to space the calipers inward. With the pads out and the rotors bolted into place, the calipers should be centered over the rotor hat. You can measure it pretty easily as the calipers are nicely machined flat at each end. Confirm the distance is equal. Your pad wear suggests they parallel but not centered.
The picture above shows the pads wore evenly end to end but not side to side. Things to keep in mind as you diagnose this are:
I hope your course wet well!
I'd strongly suggest you look closely at the shim set you're using to space the calipers inward. With the pads out and the rotors bolted into place, the calipers should be centered over the rotor hat. You can measure it pretty easily as the calipers are nicely machined flat at each end. Confirm the distance is equal. Your pad wear suggests they parallel but not centered.
The picture above shows the pads wore evenly end to end but not side to side. Things to keep in mind as you diagnose this are:
- calipers centered over rotor and parallel
- pucks retract with minimal pressure. Coast to a stop and touch the rotor. It should be cool. If its hot or warm you have drag and the calipers pistons/pucks are not retracting.
- Air in the lines (not properly bled) will create drag as the fluid expands from system temperature increasing while riding. Bleed the brakes properly. NO pumping them with the bleeder wide open.
- Make certain the brake lever has free play so it doesn't hold the brakes partially on and block the feed port from the reservoir.
- Never swap pads due to wear issues. Fix the problem!
I hope your course wet well!
FWIW:
On the rear of the 08, I used to find that disc was pretty warm to the touch. I did not service the caliper, bleed the brakes or change anything but the rear wheels alignment as the chain indicated it was not centered properly. To me that doesn't make sense as the caliper is fixed to the axle which pretty much says the rotor and caliper are a unit and aligned with each other. But I say again, correcting the alignment, dropped the temperature so the alignment can affect the temperature / wear. The rear is a floating caliper.
On the rear of the 08, I used to find that disc was pretty warm to the touch. I did not service the caliper, bleed the brakes or change anything but the rear wheels alignment as the chain indicated it was not centered properly. To me that doesn't make sense as the caliper is fixed to the axle which pretty much says the rotor and caliper are a unit and aligned with each other. But I say again, correcting the alignment, dropped the temperature so the alignment can affect the temperature / wear. The rear is a floating caliper.
The rear is a little more prone to uneven wear, I'm not sure why but here is a extreme example of uneven wear
In the case of the rear or the Early fizzers front, its because the caliper is not floating on the slide pins FREELY. Air in the lines can extenuate the condition, as does over packing the slider pins with grease. In that case, it CAN make a static lock until the grease can leak past the seals and allow the caliper to slide on the pins again.
MOST floating calipers have a rubber plug or a bellows to keep the grease in, dirt out, and allow the calipers floating pins to move freely without creating a hydrostatic lock of grease. But old dried up and hardened grease can block the pins vent and prevent the caliper from sliding on one or both ends. Its really important to clean out the old grease and make certain the pins allow the floating section of the caliper to use it full range of motion. Worn pins/bushings can also stop the caliper from retracting and wear the pads excessively as shown here.
I hope that makes sense to everyone.
jrevans
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I'll try to find some time to measure the caliper center. These were from the sharkbait shim kit, not just mcmaster shims, but I never did put a micrometer on them to measure them.
I'm not positive what you're saying, but the old pad wear seemed even across each pad.
Class went well. What a way to scrub in new tires and bed new brakes!
jrevans
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Which part?
You said: The picture above shows the pads wore evenly end to end but not side to side
and I don't know what you mean by that.
The old pads, when removed, seemed to show even wear across each pad, with the only difference being that the inner pad had more wear than the outer wear. Were you saying that from the picture I posted, it appeared that the wear across each pad was somehow uneven?
OK - in the pic below it shows even wear from the leading edge to the trailing edge but the inner vs outer pad on the side shown is BAD! My point is it seems unlikely its from e sticking puck (piston) and is more likely about being properly centered.
View attachment 42569
Q?
When the new pads were fitted, did the wheel spin freely once installed?
And did the pucks push back in easily to fit the new pads.
Because i suppose it could be that one side had stuck the pucks but I don't think so.
jrevans
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That is more clear now. I thought you were saying that you saw leading edge to trailing edge wear being different. Wear is uniform on each pad individually, but the inners were worn a lot more than the outers.
All four pistons pushed back easily into the calipers.
When the wheel was fitted and the new brakes installed, the wheel spun pretty much freely, but there was some drag from the pads, since they were touching against the rotors a little on both sides.
The pin was really gross with lots of buildup. It actually had greyish/whitish lines on it, apparently from where stuff rubbed on it, or it was that way from the factory. I cleaned it all up before reinstalling it. I lubricated the pins, but I didn't have any brake grease, so I used my normal high-temp, semi-synthetic bearing grease.
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Do you know when/if the seals were replaced in the R6 calibers? They appear to be original/ not maintained. All you need is a little bit of crap jammed (when someone pushes dirty pistons back in) in the assembly to make things not work properly..
I found even thou the pistons will push back in somewhat easily, the seals, especially with more than 3 years on them, WILL STICK and not retract as they should as when new..
A good cleaning and new seals should solve your problem. There's nothing else in the caliber to go wrong short of corrosion of the parts. When taking them apart, you'll find Yamaha assembled them with pretty tight spec's.
The brake grease I mentioned earlier makes assembly and piston movement MUCH EASIER once assembled.
I've rebuilt my old FJR brakes (same set up as yours) once, dissassembled and cleaned (greased too) the pistons retracted 200% better. My 4 pot 2007 ft brakes were cleaned and greased (not rebuilt) which helped greatly.
It is noted in the manual by YAMAHA to replace the BRAKE seals EVERY TWO YEARS.
IMHO, simply cleaning and rebuilding the assemblies with NEW SEALS (around $100.00) will solve your problems.
I found even thou the pistons will push back in somewhat easily, the seals, especially with more than 3 years on them, WILL STICK and not retract as they should as when new..
A good cleaning and new seals should solve your problem. There's nothing else in the caliber to go wrong short of corrosion of the parts. When taking them apart, you'll find Yamaha assembled them with pretty tight spec's.
The brake grease I mentioned earlier makes assembly and piston movement MUCH EASIER once assembled.
I've rebuilt my old FJR brakes (same set up as yours) once, dissassembled and cleaned (greased too) the pistons retracted 200% better. My 4 pot 2007 ft brakes were cleaned and greased (not rebuilt) which helped greatly.
It is noted in the manual by YAMAHA to replace the BRAKE seals EVERY TWO YEARS.
IMHO, simply cleaning and rebuilding the assemblies with NEW SEALS (around $100.00) will solve your problems.
