Help! Bike won't start after Leo Vince install?

[Hal Incandenza]

Thanks.. I'd noticed that and thought I'd found the problem.. but there's no 4th wire anywhere that I could see, and the other 3 are inside a rubber casing.. would be pretty hard for a wire to retract into that casing so far you couldn't see the end..?

Anyways at this point I'm hoping it's the tip over sensor, if not that then the fuse..will take a look tonite..

On your second picture, the wire harness, is there a 4th wire on the lower left(hard to tell)? If there is, it appears to have backed out of the harness..

 

[FinalImpact]

ECU SELF-DIAGNOSTIC FUNCTION
The ECU is equipped with a self-diagnostic function in order to ensure that the fuel injection system is operating normally. If this function detects a malfunction in the system, it immediately operates the engine under substitute characteristics and illuminates the engine trouble warning light to alert the rider that a malfunction has occurred in the system. Once a malfunction has been detected, a fault code is stored in the memory of the ECU.
• To inform the rider that the fuel injection system is not functioning, the engine trouble warning light flashes when the start switch is being pushed to start the engine.
• If a malfunction is detected in the system by the self-diagnostic function, the ECU provides an appropriate substitute characteristic operation, and alerts the rider of the detected malfunction by illuminating the engine trouble warning light.
• After the engine has been stopped, the lowest fault code number appears on the clock LCD. Once a fault code has been displayed, it remains stored in the memory of the ECU until it is deleted.

* The warning light flashes when any one of the conditions listed below is present and the start switch is pushed:

12: Crankshaft position sensor
19: Sidestand switch (open circuit in the wire to the ECU)
30: Lean angle sensor (latch up detected)
41: Lean angle sensor (open or short-circuit)
50: ECU internal malfunction (faulty ECU memory)

*****
I would exercise every connector looking inside of it to confirm there is no corrosion. If the lean sensor was triggered; if working correctly it would have been reset by the key being cycled. That doesn't mean its not defective or should be double checked. A glance at the Sidestand switch and connector will likely be helpful. . . .

 

[Motogiro]

Do you hear the fuel pump come on when you turn the key to the on position?

There are a number of logic circuits that will not allow the starter to run. The "Starter interrupt relay" or "Start cutoff relay" is a good place to start troubleshooting. The lean angle or tilt switch will allow the starter to operate but the bike won't run so I would start by making sure the starter circuits are operating. Is that engine light coming on when you push the starter button or is it coming on as you turn the key on as a check?

So let's start here. On top of the battery there is a relay assembly. It has a red with white tracer wire. If you have a test light or volt meter we need to see if there is 12-13 Volts on that wire when you turn the key to the on position.

 

[FinalImpact]

Do you hear the fuel pump come on when you turn the key to the on position?

There are a number of logic circuits that will not allow the starter to run. The "Starter interrupt relay" or "Start cutoff relay" is a good place to start troubleshooting. The lean angle or tilt switch will allow the starter to operate but the bike won't run so I would start by making sure the starter circuits are operating. Is that engine light coming on when you push the starter button or is it coming on as you turn the key on as a check?

So let's start here. On top of the battery there is a relay assembly. It has a red with white tracer wire. If you have a test light or volt meter we need to see if there is 12-13 Volts on that wire when you turn the key to the on position.

But Young GrassHopper - the flashing check engine light says something is broke and and you will be Denied activation! HA! Sounds like Winders kinda thing when I type it like that!

Because the service area contains the sidestand and the lean angle sensor, I'd venture to guess its one of those over the crank position sensor or ECM. Well unless the ECM lost its ground?

Can you confirm the ECM has a good ground and bypass the side stand? After that, do the quick test on the lean sensor.

Lean angle sensor:
• Upright 0.4–1.4 ohms (hint you need to Zero your meter to exclude the resistance of the test leads for values this close to zero)
• Overturned 3.8–4.2 ohms

So if the electrical connection is compromised, the resistance would change AND the ECM would give you the finger filling in the Check Box saying "Unable to start". Which is going to disable the fuel pump.

Q? Has anyone ever had the Engine Stop Switch be intermittent and cause the flashing light as described here?

OP - retrace EVERY step you took during the pipe install and think about every connection touched. Its likely something you did like disturbing a ground or a connector. Any chance your bike fell over without your knowledge?

 

[Motogiro]

But Young GrassHopper - the flashing check engine light says something is broke and and you will be Denied activation! HA! Sounds like Winders kinda thing when I type it like that!

Because the service area contains the sidestand and the lean angle sensor, I'd venture to guess its one of those over the crank position sensor or ECM. Well unless the ECM lost its ground?

Can you confirm the ECM has a good ground and bypass the side stand? After that, do the quick test on the lean sensor.

Lean angle sensor:
• Upright 0.4–1.4 ohms (hint you need to Zero your meter to exclude the resistance of the test leads for values this close to zero)
• Overturned 3.8–4.2 ohms

So if the electrical connection is compromised, the resistance would change AND the ECM would give you the finger filling in the Check Box saying "Unable to start". Which is going to disable the fuel pump.

Q? Has anyone ever had the Engine Stop Switch be intermittent and cause the flashing light as described here?

OP - retrace EVERY step you took during the pipe install and think about every connection touched. Its likely something you did like disturbing a ground or a connector. Any chance your bike fell over without your knowledge?

I'm trying to confirm whether the engine light is steady blinking or just going through test. I've also tried to confirm whether the fuel pump primes.
Instead of guessing or assuming I'd like to confirm these questions with the OP. I haven't confirmed where the ECU inhibits cranking so I won't assume that's what is actually happening but I do know the logic for inhibit will inhibit the starter relay located on top of the battery. I'll assume all fuses have been checked?
Yes a steady engine light blink will indicate there something wrong.
So the red with white tracer will tell me right away if I have keyed on 12-13 VDC. The blue with white tracer wire will have a voltage on it and when you hit the starter button this would normally be pulled to ground, operate the starter relay and starter. If you hear this relay and see the voltage drop to zero volts on the blue with white tracer wire while you press the starter button it would indicate trouble shooting the voltage going to the starter or the starter itself. If this blue with white tracer wire does not go to ground then the interrupt is holding you up because the logic conditions for starting have not been met.

It's not easy to doing this stuff on the internet but we have a good possibility of helping solve this as a team.

 

[ChevyFazer]

If I'm not mistaken there is a small handful of things that will keep the bike from push starting, so that should rule out a good bit including the side stand, what else does it rule out?

 

[Motogiro]

If I'm not mistaken there is a small handful of things that will keep the bike from push starting, so that should rule out a good bit including the side stand, what else does it rule out?

I thought he said he wasn't sure he was bump starting it correctly and was a little hesitant and worried about losing control if it kicked over. This leads me to believe we need to establish better communication and confirmation to make logical assessment and be of help.

 

[Hal Incandenza]

wow thanks for all the help everyone!

The engine light doesn't come on right away when I turn the key on.. when I push the starter, at that point it starts blinking. Pretty sure the fuel pump's not priming.. other than the light blinking nothing at all happens when I push the starter button.

Based on occam's razor, I'm kinda hoping it's not the fuses or anything that wasn't anywhere near where I was working, especially seeing as how I don't think i have the skills to fix any of that stuff (how does one even check a fuse.. i guess just by looking to see if it's corroded? sorry i'm learning here, lol..) for the tip over switch, or i guess technically it's called the lean angle sensor in the service manual, I was hoping to just locate it and check the wires to make sure they're properly connected with no shorts anywhere..

Got home from work later than I'd expected, will probably have to wait till tomorrow to take another look at the bike, unfortunately..

 

[ChevyFazer]

I thought he said he wasn't sure he was bump starting it correctly and was a little hesitant and worried about losing control if it kicked over. This leads me to believe we need to establish better communication and confirmation to make logical assessment and be of help.

Yes he did say that but he also said that he had it going about 10-15 and released the clutch but i think he might have pulled it back in to quick after re-reading it so Hal if you feel up for it give it another go get it up to about the same speed release the clutch but when you feel that jolt don't pull the clutch in leave it be, if it's able to start it will fire up shortly after that "jolt" also about the fuel pump priming, that is that "buzzing" noise when you flip the kill switch in the on position or if it's already on when you turn the key on, so if you are not hearing this buzzing/whining noise then the pump is not priming.

 

[Motogiro]

wow thanks for all the help everyone!

The engine light doesn't come on right away when I turn the key on.. when I push the starter, at that point it starts blinking. Pretty sure the fuel pump's not priming.. other than the light blinking nothing at all happens when I push the starter button.

Based on occam's razor, I'm kinda hoping it's not the fuses or anything that wasn't anywhere near where I was working, especially seeing as how I don't think i have the skills to fix any of that stuff (how does one even check a fuse.. i guess just by looking to see if it's corroded? sorry i'm learning here, lol..) for the tip over switch, or i guess technically it's called the lean angle sensor in the service manual, I was hoping to just locate it and check the wires to make sure they're properly connected with no shorts anywhere..

Got home from work later than I'd expected, will probably have to wait till tomorrow to take another look at the bike, unfortunately..

Fuses don't work that way. They protect circuitry and wire in the event of an overload or short circuit. You may have at some time during the installation or at present have a pinched wire that is no where near the fuse but has given reason for the fuse to blow to protect that circuit/wiring.

It's a good bet that what Final Impact is saying is pretty accurate as to what is going on and we may find the issue with a few tests. I would first check fuses and make sure all voltages needed for control and logic are present. You'll need to pull each fuse individually and test them with an ohm meter.

 

[FinalImpact]

I'm thinking if the light flashes - no pump prime, pushing is purely good exercise!

OP you're gonna either pay someone or buy a hand held DMM (Digital Multi Meter). These things are life savers!!!! If you have a Harbor Freight or something like that, 10 to $50 will allow us to help you more effectively. Plus you can tell the girl its for testing electrical circuits around the house to keep her safe!

With a hand held digital multi meter, volts, ohms (resistance), capacitance, current, these meters can test all of the items we're bringing up her and learn how to trouble-shoot electronics! Testing fuses is breeze too!


Here is a fancy one I have that does temperature too!

I think the first thing I'd do is jumper the kick stand and turn the key on. After that, eyeball the connectors to the lean sensor. Did you take the lean sensor off? It won't be happy if its upside down!

 

[ChevyFazer]

If the pump isn't priming then obviously trying to bump start is of no use but I don't think it's 100% yet that it's not priming, if it's not priming what all could cause the pump not to prime as well as the starter not spin, tip over sensor?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

If the pump isn't priming then obviously trying to bump start is of no use but I don't think it's 100% yet that it's not priming, if it's not priming what all could cause the pump not to prime as well as the starter not spin, tip over sensor?

The handlebar kill switch turned off (or failed) would cause it NOT to prime or crank over. That wouldn't explain the engine light thou..

Tip over sensor, I dunno, possibly??

Anyone have a picture of the TOS?

 

[ChevyFazer]

I know I'm going postal on posting but I keep thinking of stuff lol, when the engine light comes on does it display a code where it normally shows the time?

 

[Motogiro]

The handlebar kill switch turned off (or failed) would cause it NOT to prime or crank over. That wouldn't explain the engine light thou..

Tip over sensor, I dunno, possibly??

Anyone have a picture of the TOS?

Yup! and a blown fuse #47 might have the same effect as as nothing through the kill switch #40

I know I'm going postal on posting but I keep thinking of stuff lol, when the engine light comes on does it display a code where it normally shows the time?

Your not postal! LOL! I thought of that but figured if there was a code popping we'd have heard about it by now. I agree, is there a code?

 

[Hal Incandenza]

I know I'm going postal on posting but I keep thinking of stuff lol, when the engine light comes on does it display a code where it normally shows the time?

No, no code.. I'm pretty sure the pump's priming now that I think about it.. I mean it does all the normal noises when you turn the key on, it's just when you push the starter that nothing happens.

A friend in my building has a multimeter, guess I'll see if I can borrow it sometime soon..

 

[Motogiro]

No, no code.. I'm pretty sure the pump's priming now that I think about it.. I mean it does all the normal noises when you turn the key on, it's just when you push the starter that nothing happens.

A friend in my building has a multimeter, guess I'll see if I can borrow it sometime soon..

Go to my post #23 in on this thread. I've added a picture of the starter relay. It will look a little different from the picture and will have a rubber boot on it but the wires will be the same color code. When your friend comes with the volt meter. Turn the key on and see if you have 12-13 Volts on the red with white tracer wire coming from that relay.

 

[FinalImpact]

H.I.
you might want to print out pages 338 to 359 of the 07 Service manual.
It shows you how to use the bikes ECM in diagnostic mode to test each of the sensors and verify they give proper readings.

Because the pump primes and there is no Error code that implies the basic sensors are on-line and talking to the ECM and OK. That kinda points to the safety lock-out features that are there to protect you.

Did you retrace your steps of all things touched/taken apart?

Side stand switch
Lean indicator
Kill switch
ECM missing ground
Pinched wires

Here is a blurb from the manual:
((PASTE))
EAS27411 DIAGNOSTIC MODE
Setting the diagnostic mode
1. Turn the main switch to “OFF” and set the engine stop switch to “ ”.
2. Disconnect the wire harness coupler from the fuel pump.
3. Simultaneously press and hold the “SELECT” and “RESET” buttons, turn the main switch to “ON”, and continue to press the buttons for 8 seconds or more.

NOTE:
• All displays on the meter disappear except the clock and tripmeter displays.
• “dIAG” appears on the clock LCD.
4. Press the “SELECT” button to select the diagnostic monitoring mode “dIAG”.
5. After selecting “dIAG”, simultaneously press the “SELECT” and “RESET” buttons for 2 seconds or more to execute the selection.
6. Set the engine stop switch to “OFF”.
7. Select the diagnostic code number that applies to the item that was verified with the fault code number by pressing the “SELECT” and “RESET” buttons.

NOTE:
The diagnostic code number appears on the clock LCD (01–70).
• To decrease the selected diagnostic code number, press the “RESET” button. Press the “RESET” button for 1 second or longer to automatically decrease the diagnostic code numbers.
• To increase the selected diagnostic code number, press the “SELECT” button. Press the “SELECT” button for 1 second or longer to automatically increase the diagnostic code numbers.
8. Verify the operation of the sensor or actuator.
• Sensor operation
The data representing the operating conditions of the sensor appears on the trip LCD.
• Actuator operation
Set the engine stop switch to “ ” to operate the actuator.

((END PASTE))

This gives you an idea of its abilities

PAGE 341 has the values the ECM should be displaying. . . We all might want to READ ours and jot down the values for reference later on. It could be helpful if something is at the limits if we know that BEFORE it breaks!

 

[yamihoe]

FinalImpact: way to put an O.S. engine in a 2.5r Revo :thumbup:

Im assuming you have gas in the tank?
I do alot of work with automotive batteries and they can be on with enough conductivity to work all the gauges and not tight enough to start. so if both the positive cables or negative is loose at all or not fully seated, it could still (even with a multimeter) read that everything is alright.
bump start it in like 4th not 1st gear, makes things smoother
anyways im more interested in seeing what the problem ends up being...
hope you get it up goin soon!!!

 

[FinalImpact]

FinalImpact: way to put an O.S. engine in a 2.5r Revo :thumbup:

Good eye and a momentary thread derail. . .
We were drag racing that day and dialed them in for maximum speed in a straight line. Both had stock gears and the TRX wins the high speed pass although the OS would take the Revo 3.3 out of the hole. Also confirmed these things will do 45+ mph! With proper Toe, Camber and caster settings, they'll do 47 to 48mph! The "other" forum said they wouldn't but those guys were taking the ideal dirt track setup and failing straight away speed tests do to excessive tire scrub from toe and caster being non-ideal for street use. Go figure. I think I have a video and used the frames per second to prove its speed between two points. The good old days. . .

OK - as you were . . .