Do my spark plugs look past it ?

[AdamFZ]

Hey all,

I'm trying to diagnose a rough running issue, not sure if its ignition related or TPS. I've emailed Yamaha to find out how to find out if my bike was ever recalled for a TPS change. I'm going to be trimming my HT leads to make sure they have a good connection.

I've whipped out the spark plugs and they don't look in great condition, what do you think ?

 

[Carlos840]

Those look normal to me, but considering the price i would change them anyway just so you can be sure that's not the issue you are having.

I just changed mine, cheapest price i could find was here:

NGK spark plug CR9EK (plugs) CR9-EK trade price 4548 | eBay

£23 shipped for the set.

 

[AdamFZ]

Thanks. I've order some :thumbup:

 

[Motogiro]

Also set the gap on the plugs whether new or not to the service manual specification. 0.6 - 0.7 mm (0.0236 - 0.0276 in)

Many plugs are preset to a nominal gap to fit many different engines so you must check even new ones.

Is the motor due for valve lash check? Check all vacuum lines. Maybe run some SeaFoam injector cleaner through the tank.

 

[Carlos840]

+1 for the gaps, one of my 4 had a gap that was larger then specified.

If you don't have the tool yet, it is worth getting, they are cheap.

I got a wire one:

POWERBUILT SPARK PLUG GAPPER GAPPING GAP TOOL (wire type) | eBay

Apparently they are better than the round ones because they can be used on iridium plugs to.

 

[FinalImpact]

From left to right 1 - 4
# 2 and #4 show some wear! They do look normal and color is good.

This is just me but I'm running the CR9E (no K, conventional ground strap). JM2C but it runs better and smoother than it ever did with the Side Straps. Obviously going to precious metal plugs of any kind gets you the conventional ground strap too.

Adam, how many miles are on those?

Yes, check for vacuum leaks and throw some Techron in there.

 

[VEGASRIDER]

How or what kind of symptoms the engine would create in the event one or more plugs were out of specs with the gaps.

 

[FIZZER6]

That plug on the right is toast. It definitely had a bit of water down in the well at some point which is where all that white corrosion comes from. If it was wet you may also have corrosion in the spark plug boot which may have caused a poor spark on that plug which can cause the problems with your HT leads.

As for the electrode tips, IMO if the center electrode shows wear on the sides facing the dual electrodes then it's time to replace. There's more to worry about with old plugs than good spark. If that electrode were to break off it could destroy that cylinder. It happens.

 

[AdamFZ]

I checked the valves when the engine was out last year, all were within tolerance.

Bike is on 35k now. No idea how long they have been in there. I haven't changed them since i got the bike back in 2012

 

[FZSexy]

Bike is on 35k now. No idea how long they have been in there. I haven't changed them since i got the bike back in 2012

owners manual calls for a change every 8,000 miles. too frequent imo but in this case....its time and can't hurt!!

 

[FinalImpact]

owners manual calls for a change every 8,000 miles. too frequent imo but in this case....its time and can't hurt!!

The OEM spec'd carbon plug is not mean to last 15k. I left mine for 12,000 and they had noticeable wear beyond that shown above. Take away is; I wouldn't go much past the OEM spec on carbon based plugs unless you go in and measure and adjust for wear.

Precious metal plugs change everything! At least check the burn pattern every 25k but no need to replace.

As for the body seeing moisture (far right); well it did get wet. The moisture in the hole **could cause** misfires. But based on the burn color on porcelain it and lefty (same pair) look the same. Both appear richer than those in the center.

Have you have checked the C0/C1 settings? I'm curious if 1 and 4 are higher than 2/3??

 

[FinalImpact]

How or what kind of symptoms the engine would create in the event one or more plugs were out of specs with the gaps.

Excessive gap can lead to to misfire under load (and/or partial misfire. i.e hesitation). Load being pretty substantial from Idle to say 5,000 RPM.
So, throttle response can suffer and come across as hesitation.

For those fitting the bike with carbon plugs do not set them to the MAX gap. Shoot for the middle 0.026" as they clearly wear in 10,000 miles. And these being a waste spark ignition, the plugs are seeing the life cycle of 16,000 miles in 8,000 miles.

These came out at 12,000 miles.

 

[AdamFZ]

Have you have checked the C0/C1 settings? I'm curious if 1 and 4 are higher than 2/3??

Sorry but what are C0/C1 settings ?

I've done a throttle sync and checked it again today and its spot on.

 

[Carlos840]

C0 and C1 settings are the Co adjustment settings.
They allow you to add or remove fuel from the mixture.

Everything you need to know about that is in this thread:

http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-mods/4809-dyno-tune-co-adjustment-leo-vince.html


Randy, on a side note, i have changed my plugs last week, and checked the Co settings, C0 and C1 where both at 0, and all four plugs looked exactly the same at 8000 miles.
They looked a bit lean, so i went +10 and both C0 and C1, it did make the throttle feel a bit better, need to check the plugs again see how they look.

 

[FinalImpact]

^^ A means of viewing and making minor fuel metering adjustments between the two pairs of cylinders. Just like the 1 - 4 and 2 - 3 spark, there is 1 - 4 and 2 - 3 group fire control to the injectors also.

Take a peak at this: http://www.600riders.com/forum/how-to-s-/30125-enable-co-adjustment-usa-only-lean-richen.html

US bikes its locked out until you ground a wire from the ECM then it enables the function to be viewed at the OEM instrument panel.

Some bikes are matched like C0 = +3, C1 = +3, other are extremes like -15 and + 10.

I brought it up just in case you'd glanced at it and was currious if that is why your plugs colors are not better matched from pair to pair. No worries.

 

[AdamFZ]

Thanks. I'll check that tomorrow :thumbup:

 

[FZ09Bandit]

Sorry I don't see the point of 2 straps. Fire is only going to go to one or the other. You won't really gain anything from it.

Upgrade to a Iridium for longevity. Electrodes on yours look ok. Replace or reset your gap for wear.

 

[AdamFZ]

C1 was 5 and C2 was 19

 

[Tx05fz6]

Last summer my 2005 with 22,000+ miles on it started idling rough and lacked power due to a miss. I suspected the injectors due to a cylinder running cool. Weird thing is if I put 93 octane and a fuel system cleaner in it, if would run fine. During the down season I took it apart and cleaned the injectors and checked the plugs. Plugs looked fine. Put back together and problem persisted. Changed the plugs and all better and runs like new. Dealer states the gas we are getting now a days is ruining plugs prematurely. 2000 miles later Now I have another issue. At partial throttle (5-10%) it surges bad. Like it goes from no throttle to where it should be and back to none over and over. Give it more throttle and all is good. Couple that with tonight I was 5 miles into reserve fuel (last bar flashing) and it died twice at lights and idled extremely low afterwards. Filled up with 93 and all is good again. What is the life span of our fuel pumps? I thing mine might be getting hot as it only did it when fuel level was low. The other issue. Of surging is probably my TPS which was recalled but never replaced since it hadn't caused problems. Anybody have opinions/ideas?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Last summer my 2005 with 22,000+ miles on it started idling rough and lacked power due to a miss. I suspected the injectors due to a cylinder running cool. Weird thing is if I put 93 octane and a fuel system cleaner in it, if would run fine. During the down season I took it apart and cleaned the injectors and checked the plugs. Plugs looked fine. Put back together and problem persisted. Changed the plugs and all better and runs like new. Dealer states the gas we are getting now a days is ruining plugs prematurely. 2000 miles later Now I have another issue. At partial throttle (5-10%) it surges bad. Like it goes from no throttle to where it should be and back to none over and over. Give it more throttle and all is good. Couple that with tonight I was 5 miles into reserve fuel (last bar flashing) and it died twice at lights and idled extremely low afterwards. Filled up with 93 and all is good again. What is the life span of our fuel pumps? I thing mine might be getting hot as it only did it when fuel level was low. The other issue. Of surging is probably my TPS which was recalled but never replaced since it hadn't caused problems. Anybody have opinions/ideas?

If the TPS has a re-call, replace it! Its free and you can wait for it, doesn't take long.

A faulty TPS can cause the issues your having.

BTW, fuel in the tank helps cool the fuel pump. Running the fuel low is NOT helping extend the pumps life...

Re the life span of the pump, it depends on what you put in the tank crap getting in, cloggng the filter and again, if you run it super low, the pump is running hotter, lots of heat on an electric motor is shortening its life..

The below pic is the filter(clogged up) and pump. The filter is NOT REPLACEABLE