Bike dies as tho the kill switch was hit

[Flyinace1]

Got the right grease, but thanks. When I don't know something I'm not scared to ask the guy at the counter

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[Flyinace1]

I put back together the switch and then lifted up the tank so I could check wires with the bike on. I jiggled every wire I could see and nothing killed it. I'll take it for a ride in a few hours

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[Flyinace1]

Just got back from my ride and it would seem as tho cleaning the switch has worked. I'm not gonna say with certainty that it's fixed yet cause of the problems inconsistent behavior but I have hope

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[TownsendsFJR1300]

Just got back from my ride and it would seem as tho cleaning the switch has worked. I'm not gonna say with certainty that it's fixed yet cause of the problems inconsistent behavior but I have hope

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Excellent!

Another update once your comfy that was indeed the issue would be appreciated!

 

[Flyinace1]

Well I rode out to long beach to take care of some business and back home with no incident, so I'm pretty sure it is fixed. Thanks guys for the help.

And if anyone else has this problem, the kill switch won't necessarily be the obvious problem. With mine, jiggling the switch around produced no results but disassembling and cleaning it did.

 

[AdamFZ]

Glad my instructions/pictures helped you clean the switch.

Hopefully it'll help a lot of others.

:thumbup:

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Glad my instructions/pictures helped you clean the switch.

Hopefully it'll help a lot of others.

:thumbup:

I have your link/post, post 36, saved for future postings (it will!!)

http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-electrical/48311-run-switch-faulty-4.html#post571569

:thumbup:

 

[chunkygoat]

The "burn" spots on the contacts of the switch I suspect are from some sort of welding action. I have done a great many tests where I have seen this with high inrush currents due to large motor starters and or high power LEDs.

What I have seen, is during startup of these types of systems, for one to two milliseconds, tremendous inrush currents can be observed. Because the inrush spike occurs only for a very brief period of time - it approaches obscenely high temperatures and can actually cause the contacts of your switch to WELD to the armature that is actually doing the switching.

My question is, have you done any LED modifications? The switch is rated from Yamaha to meet the spec of the bike. Companies are notorious for doing valued analysis of parts and tend to pick the best price to quality compromise for component design. I would suspect because we have heard so many issues with the killswitch, that this would be one component they saved a few cents a piece on by choosing lower rated contacts.

If your adding large amounts of high power LEDs, be weary of the consequences that go hand in hand with their operation: its the nature of the beast.

(just thinking out loud)

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Wether or not the above is true, I would think simply NOT using the switch EXCEPT IN CASE OF EMERGENCY would PREVENT the issue.

All the cases I re-call reading about, all the operators used the red kill switch regularly.

Could it be built more stout, sure.

But for what its designed for, IMO, emergencies, its fine.

You have to turn off the power anyway at the key (if you forget, you have the joy of push starting!) or just put down the kick stand in gear and it'll turn off the engine..

 

[Water Bear]

You have to turn off the power anyway at the key (if you forget, you have the joy of push starting!) or just put down the kick stand in gear and it'll turn off the engine..

Speaking of this, one of the mechanics at my local shop told me that sometimes when the kick stand gets really worn it will sag and that can trigger the kick stand cut off.

I figure the OP would have noticed if his kick stand was in bad shape like that, but it's worth considering if the problem is still not resolved.

Edit: I see a couple posts up that it is resolved.

 

[payneib]

The "burn" spots on the contacts of the switch I suspect are from some sort of welding action. I have done a great many tests where I have seen this with high inrush currents

It's called starting current, and for a typical motor can be as much as triple the normal running current, depending on the physical load (weight of moving parts in the motor, physical resistance of what the motor is trying to turn, etc). It's why you have "starter circuits" on large output electrical motors, changing the windings of the motor between "star", and "delta" configuration, and occasionally back again, as well as "soft start" settings to prevent current overload trips activating under starting current. As you're not closing the switch to start the bike, this wouldn't be an issue unless the switch was loose and rattling, whilst the starter motor is engaged and drawing large amounts of current.

The black contactors, you're nearly correct, in that it's an arc as the contactors are opening. For the micro second that there's a visible arc as the contactors are opening, there's a massive current causing significant heat, just like in arc welding. The difference being, that when this happens, it's only a problem in contactors that have high current and arcing as they close, causing them to weld shut.

Wether or not the above is true, I would think simply NOT using the switch EXCEPT IN CASE OF EMERGENCY would PREVENT the issue.

All the cases I re-call reading about, all the operators used the red kill switch regularly.

Could it be built more stout, sure.

But for what its designed for, IMO, emergencies, its fine.

You have to turn off the power anyway at the key (if you forget, you have the joy of push starting!) or just put down the kick stand in gear and it'll turn off the engine..

^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^

Exactly that. Does anyone with more experience of the FZ6 know where in the circuit the kill switch is? I'd hazard a guess that it's on the main running bus between battery and ignition circuit (I honestly don't know much about vehicle wiring, I'm an industrial man myself), which is always going to be a high current circuit. Opening any contactor on a circuit like that will give you an arc, will dirty up the contactors and cause an open circuit. At worst, that arc could remove enough material that the contactor needs replacing all together.

I'd probably avoid the kick stand switch also. It's part of the clutch switch/neutral indicator circuit so it's not going to have the same issues as the kill switch, as it's in a low current circuit, but it's a safety interlock. Safety interlocks shouldn't fail due to wear and tear. If they do, you're using them too much. It's best to just stick to the ignition key as your engine cut off.

But I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks an emergency cut off should only be used in an emergency. I thought I was going mad there for a second.

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[FinalImpact]

The "burn" spots on the contacts of the switch I suspect are from some sort of welding action. I have done a great many tests where I have seen this with high inrush currents due to large motor starters and or high power LEDs.

What I have seen, is during startup of these types of systems, for one to two milliseconds, tremendous inrush currents can be observed. Because the inrush spike occurs only for a very brief period of time - it approaches obscenely high temperatures and can actually cause the contacts of your switch to WELD to the armature that is actually doing the switching.

My question is, have you done any LED modifications? The switch is rated from Yamaha to meet the spec of the bike. Companies are notorious for doing valued analysis of parts and tend to pick the best price to quality compromise for component design. I would suspect because we have heard so many issues with the killswitch, that this would be one component they saved a few cents a piece on by choosing lower rated contacts.

If your adding large amounts of high power LEDs, be weary of the consequences that go hand in hand with their operation: its the nature of the beast.

(just thinking out loud)

I'd venture guess that should the conductors remain clean, they could be cycled a thousands times. But the environmental dust, moisture, and vibration lead to burning and contamination and eventually an open circuit even when the contacts are in the closed position.

Most electrical junctions can handle pure water. Its the addition of containments that induce and/or contribute to premature failure of the contacts.

>> I looked at the schematic - >> an added contributor to the switches failure is this: Its directly responsible for power to the IGNITION COILS! Flipping that kill switch shuts off power to the coils. Taking that into account adds yet another strain to induce failure! Unlike a lamp which is a constant DC load, the coils introduce a high frequency AC signal at the switch. That frequency is proportional to engine RPM.

In short, added factors like a dusty or high humidity environments and daily use of that switch suggest it be cleaned to keep the bike reliable.

I never use the "kill" switch as the key has to be turned off anyway but I may opt to clean and lubricate it knowing it powers the coils.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I remember reading some posts where beginning riders are taught to use the Red, Emergency Kill switch first and foremost.

Why, I don't know (must be a reason).

Especially newbee's, thier more likely to forget to turn off the key. In 1977, when I got my MC license, there were NO mandatory schools, written and road test only.

The only MC riding schooling I took was the Advanced, Police Motorcycle Class, when I worked Motors on the PD. I never took the basic class, and the advanced class which had nothing to do with the basics.

99% of the time, no matter what the bike, I use the key. Just habit.

 

[Flyinace1]

I remember reading some posts where beginning riders are taught to use the Red, Emergency Kill switch first and foremost.

Why, I don't know (must be a reason).

This is what I was taught so I always used my kill switch. I didn't even realize it was supposed to be an emergency cut off switch, I thought it was simply a kill switch but I have since stopped using it

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

This is what I was taught so I always used my kill switch. I didn't even realize it was supposed to be an emergency cut off switch, I thought it was simply a kill switch but I have since stopped using it

Did they give a specific reason for normally using that switch? Just curious..

 

[Flyinace1]

Did they give a specific reason for normally using that switch? Just curious..

Not that I remember. It was just part of the procedure

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[Solarservant]

Once again, this forum comes to the rescue. You guys rule. I had the same issue today and was so frustrated. Electrical issues are the worst. I would not have known to look at the kill switch. Thanks!:thumbup: