bi-xenon fz6 naked problem

[DeusEx]

Hallo everyone,
yesterday I received my Hi/Low bi-xenon kit for my fz6 naked bike and, with the help of my bro, managed to install it. (the installation was very time-consuming and difficult).

However, I run into a strange problem. The Hi-beam doesn't work when its installed in the headlight. When removed from the headlight, it switches normally between Hi and Low beam. It works with a magnet that moves the bulb when switched to Hi beam.

I re-installed it yesterday many times, but the result was always the same:
Only low-beam works...

:S

Any advice?

 

[red_rock_beetle]

Is there any binding that is inhibiting the movement of the magnet?:needpics:

 

[Motogiro]

^^^^^ that's what I would suspect 1st.
The other would intermittent hi beam voltage to the solenoid because a wire is disconnecting. You could test to see if the hi beam signal is present to the unit and is present to the solenoid itself but Caution! HIDs are High Voltage!! Thats what that transformer/ballast is all about.You don't want to test the wrong wires. The voltage output to the bulb will be very high voltage and you don't want to get tagged by it!

 

[DeusEx]

I'll post pics as soon as I manage to get Hi-Beam

I don't think that it's the wiring, because when I press the Hi-Beam, the little blue light on the speedometer (indicator of Hi-Beam on) is coming on, and the light bulb moves back and forth as it should when I hold it in my hands... (believe me, it can get very hot, very quickly!!! Ask me how I know this...)

The first assumption seems the logical one, that something is inhibiting the movement of the magnet.. I have to admit, that I force-pushed the headlight back into position, in order to mount the bolts.. Could for example a constant pressure on the back of the bulb cause this?
I believe that there was a wire connector from the blinker that got stuck
behind the xenon bulb, somehow, and now its constantly pushing the back of the bulb... I didn't thought that a little pressure could cause something like that..

 

[red_rock_beetle]

even if the bolts holding it are too tight it could flex the housing enough to get in somethings way

 

[Motogiro]

Something could be flexing enough under pressure that it's distorted the base assembly. If your cramming stuff together you may have found the problem. The next step is find a way to relieve what ever pressure is causing binding in the assembly.
The blue hi beam indicator light tells you the hi beam circuit is active but that doesn't mean the unit is seeing the hi beam voltage.

My bet is mechanical failure. all the parts should assemble with out force.

If you've touched that lamp with your fingers you should clean it or the carbon produced from the oils in your skin will bake onto the bulb and create an insulated area that restricts heat transfer off the lamp. You can use acetone to clean any oils off the lamp before using the lamp.

 

[vinmansbrew]

I don't have an answer for the fz but I stuck one of these in my CB. If you can wire it up properly but leave it out of the housing and it works, I would go with either some sort of pressure flexing something in the bulb, or some sort of magnetic field causing interference with the internal magnet.

On a side not, a bulb like this that uses ballast and a magnet to actuate hi/lo is NOT a xenon bulb. It is an HID.
the Xenon "hid" bulbs are not true HID but high wattage bulbs meant to simulate HID. They are different.
The xenon bulbs get VERY hot. The HID does not. I proved this on a 10 hour ride. On my CB, the headlight bucket contains a rats nest of wires. If heat was an issue with HID, something would have melted. So I guess I proved it to myself I should say.:thumbup:

Here is a Xenon bulb. http://compare.productwiki.com/xenon-bulbs/
These are standard HID. http://stores.ebay.com/LED-option/D2S-HID-Bulbs-or-D2R-HID-Bulbs.html
These are the hi/lo HID. http://www.china-hid-lights.com/bulb-11.html

I guess I prefer to not call HID bulbs, xenon bulbs as it can confuse people.

 

[DeusEx]

I never thought that there was an distinction between Xenon and HID..
On ebay it stated on the title, Hid and xenon, so I thought it's the same thing. This is the kit I bought, it seems like the HID bulbs you stated above.

eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace

However, I can assure you that they get very hot in a matter of seconds!
The bulb has been rubbed with pure alcohol to ensure no oily fingerprints that could shorten the lifespan or prevent the magnet from moving to Hi/Low position.
Note that the bulb moves from Hi to Low when it is not installed in the headlight, while I'm holding it in my hands! So it's not really a faulty product or a mechanical failure. I forgot to mention that I also removed the rubber dust-cover to get more room for all the wiring, but I assume this has not caused the Hi/Low beam malfunction.

PS: I didn't had any time to disassemble the headlight again, as I got sick
It sucks working in an office with an air conditioning system set to 32 C hot, and then have to drive on my bike 26 km in about 5 C degrees for about half an hour. So just brainstorming for now

 

[vinmansbrew]

Well it is still a light so it will get hot, I just don't think they get as hot, or at least no hotter, than halogens.

If you want to get technical, both bulbs are filled with xenon gas. One style though, is a typical filament bulb like a halogen. Lots of people market these as being HID, when in reality, they are not.

True HID bulbs do not use a filament like that. They rely on high voltage to kick the gas into making light. As there is no filament to burn, these lights should last for quite some time.
I think because of the "marketing" on these bulbs, I get mildly annoyed when sellers use the term HID for bulbs that are not.
Anyways, on the problem at hand, plug the bulb in and then while on, squeeze the base of the bulb, not the plug but the bulb itself and try to switch between hi/lo. See if you can flex the base some while doing it. Just a little, don't want to break the bulb and cut yourself. See if it jams.
It could just be cheap metal on the bulb allowing things to flex and jam.

 

[degake]

On a side not, a bulb like this that uses ballast and a magnet to actuate hi/lo is NOT a xenon bulb. It is an HID.
the Xenon "hid" bulbs are not true HID but high wattage bulbs meant to simulate HID. They are different.
The xenon bulbs get VERY hot. The HID does not. I proved this on a 10 hour ride. On my CB, the headlight bucket contains a rats nest of wires. If heat was an issue with HID, something would have melted. So I guess I proved it to myself I should say.:thumbup:

Here is a Xenon bulb. ProductWiki: Xenon Bulbs - Parts & Accessories
These are standard HID. eBay: LED-option
These are the hi/lo HID. H4 HID Bulb - H4-3 high & low - 6000k HID Bulb,HID Car Lamp manufacturer, supplier, exporter, OEM

I guess I prefer to not call HID bulbs, xenon bulbs as it can confuse people.

In fact, the xenon bulb your linking to isn't a xenon bulb either It is a halogen fillament bulb, which has been filled with (xenon) gas to get the bluish colour of the OEM xenon look. ("Xenon-look")
It is true that this type of bulb gets really hot, as it is in fact a halogen bulb on steroids...

HID bulbs however only use the xenon gas at warm-up.
A HID bulb (High Intensity Discharge) exists out of 2 tungsten electrodes, which will produce an arc. This arc will heat up and evaporate the metals/salts that are present in the arc chamber. The evaporated salts/metals will become plasma, which will produce a massive amount of light output and will reduce the power consumption of the arc.
The xenon gas in the HID bulbs is only used to give some light when creating/starting the arc, and to speed it up a bit. (Compare to street lighting, which uses argon; it takes several minutes to warm them up to their maximum intensity).
This is why they say the startup voltage of a HID bulb is +20kV; this is during the startup of the arc. After the arc has been formed, the voltage drops down to a reasonably low level.

However, I can assure you that they get very hot in a matter of seconds!

A xenon HID bulb will get hot, just as any other light emitting source (High powered leds also produce a lot of heat; just take a look at the heatsinks on some of them...)
But a HID bulb will get less hot than a halogen bulb

The bulb has been rubbed with pure alcohol to ensure no oily fingerprints that could shorten the lifespan or prevent the magnet from moving to Hi/Low position.
Note that the bulb moves from Hi to Low when it is not installed in the headlight, while I'm holding it in my hands! So it's not really a faulty product or a mechanical failure. I forgot to mention that I also removed the rubber dust-cover to get more room for all the wiring, but I assume this has not caused the Hi/Low beam malfunction.

If the bulb can move without any problem when it is not installed in the headlight, it must definately be that something is binding with the bulb, or the base has been flexed as stated earlier.
Just curious: if you test the lamp while keeping it in your hands: do you keep it vertically, or horizontally (as it will be mounted in the headlight)? Just curious
The best thing you could do is to put the bulb into your headlight without any fixation and test it.
After every time you tested it and it moves, screw the fixations a bit more, and see when it starts to interfere with the movement of the bulb.

It might also be worth a shot to look at the connectors of the solenoid/magnet, as it might be a little loose and interfere with the frame of your bike (I know that there isn't a lot of extra room between the naked headlight and the frame), so your problem might also be there.

The rubber dustcover shouldn't have anything to do with the movement of the bulb, as there shouldn't be any movement outside of the headlight housing (the bulb should move within it's outher shell).

PS: I didn't had any time to disassemble the headlight again, as I got sick
It sucks working in an office with an air conditioning system set to 32 C hot, and then have to drive on my bike 26 km in about 5 C degrees for about half an hour. So just brainstorming for now

Get well soon!
If you're recovered you will have a clear mind and you'll find the problem easily :thumbup:

Grtz,


Degake

 

[vinmansbrew]

Well a halogen is called a halogen cause of the gas it is filled with, so it is reasonable to call a bulb a xenon bulb since it is filled with xenon.
A person has to be careful with all the bad advertising going on.
Between the 2 of us, I think we got the xenon Vs HID thing covered though

Another thing to note about the Xenon bulbs is many of them run at a higher wattage, many of them at 100 watts.
So, if a person uses this style of bulb(not the HID), keep the additional wattage draw in mind.