Cam chain tensioner - help!!

[Capo79]

So.... Where can I get a manual tensioner then?

 

[Motogiro]

So, someone had already replace the cam chain tensioner on your bike, with a manual unit...... I hear that's the best solution. OEM, the FZ6 uses a hydraulic unit, just like the FZ1.

Sorry. No it only had that bolt so it was in fact a hydraulic....Derrrrr! :rockon:

 

[RJ2112]

So.... Where can I get a manual tensioner then?

The mechanic that told me of this issue in the first place, indicated that the manual units for the YZFR6 motor that was used for the FZ6 are 100% compatible..... that's the criteria to use in a search.

 

[RJ2112]

This is the first one I've found that seems to apply...

Yamaha - Sport - FZR 600 - Top End

As I said, I'd want to do some confirmation and double check the engine model/year of which YZF 600 is used.

 

[Capo79]

Okay, I opened up the cam chain panel. Everything is like it's supposed to be. Chain didn't show any sings of being worn out, nor was it slack in any way. So far so good.

I started up the bike and got this amazingly brilliant idea. What if I try to adjust that little screw inside the tensioner while the engine is running? That did the trick, and now I'm 100% sure what this is. It's not the spring function that's worn out. It's that little screw itself that's loose, actually. It rattles inside the tensioner, which gives that sound at certain frequencies. In other words, the lower rev bands. It stopped once the screwdriver came in contact with the screw.

The functionality of the tensioner is still there, but it figured it wanted to start making noise when hot I won't bother finding a manual one, now that I know the hydralic ones are kind of good. Wonder what Yamaha wants for a new tensioner...

 

[Motogiro]

Okay, I opened up the cam chain panel. Everything is like it's supposed to be. Chain didn't show any sings of being worn out, nor was it slack in any way. So far so good.

I started up the bike and got this amazingly brilliant idea. What if I try to adjust that little screw inside the tensioner while the engine is running? That did the trick, and now I'm 100% sure what this is. It's not the spring function that's worn out. It's that little screw itself that's loose, actually. It rattles inside the tensioner, which gives that sound at certain frequencies. In other words, the lower rev bands. It stopped once the screwdriver came in contact with the screw.

The functionality of the tensioner is still there, but it figured it wanted to start making noise when hot I won't bother finding a manual one, now that I know the hydralic ones are kind of good. Wonder what Yamaha wants for a new tensioner...

Awesome! :rockon:

 

[RJ2112]

Capo,

I think touching the internals on the tensioner and that making it quiet, should be a 'dead give away' that it's not providing the correct tension. The hydraulics are not keeping the tensioner snugged up. (I think we are in agreement on this point)

It is my view that this indicates the functionality of the tensioner is compromised. Possibly, it's not severe, but make no mistake......it's dying.

The manual adjuster design relies on threads to 'hold' the correct adjustment, rather than something that has a check valve in it, and needs some sort of seal to contain the oil. The manual type is simply a bolt with a lock nut. Once it's set, it cannot lose tension.

The remaining points of wear would be the guide that is pressed into the chain itself, and the pins in the links of the chain.

Were I searching for a replacement tensioner, it would come down to cost. I know I can set a bolt with a lock nut -- that's identical to the final drive chain. (Probably the same deal as how you discovered the tensioner is 'bad' in the first place.)

The OEM unit is possibly less expensive due to the volume of manufacture..... but the manual adjuster should be less...... it's a heck of a lot less complex. I know the bolt system will not come back out of adjustment.

 

[Capo79]

Capo,

I think touching the internals on the tensioner and that making it quiet, should be a 'dead give away' that it's not providing the correct tension. The hydraulics are not keeping the tensioner snugged up. (I think we are in agreement on this point)

It is my view that this indicates the functionality of the tensioner is compromised. Possibly, it's not severe, but make no mistake......it's dying.

The manual adjuster design relies on threads to 'hold' the correct adjustment, rather than something that has a check valve in it, and needs some sort of seal to contain the oil. The manual type is simply a bolt with a lock nut. Once it's set, it cannot lose tension.

The remaining points of wear would be the guide that is pressed into the chain itself, and the pins in the links of the chain.

Were I searching for a replacement tensioner, it would come down to cost. I know I can set a bolt with a lock nut -- that's identical to the final drive chain. (Probably the same deal as how you discovered the tensioner is 'bad' in the first place.)

The OEM unit is possibly less expensive due to the volume of manufacture..... but the manual adjuster should be less...... it's a heck of a lot less complex. I know the bolt system will not come back out of adjustment.

Yeah, I see your point:thumbup:

Let's say I go ahead and buy a manual tensioner then. When would I know that I got it right? I mean... When will you know that there's proper tension on the chain? It could either be too tight, or it could be too much slack. This would be something I'd worry about, and for that reason alone, I think I'll aim for the automatic tensioner allthough I know there's a risk that the sound will re-appear later.

I googled this yesterday, and found out that more manufacturers than just Yamaha have this issue with their tensioners. Among others, this seems to have been a problem om many CBR 600F's. On various forums, people have said that they just have to live with it and try to ignore the noise as best as they can. Most people say it's nothing to worry about, but I believe that's quite ignorant. At least in the long run (like you said). I know for sure that the noise wasn't there when I bought the bike, ergo it shouldn't be there...

 

[Capo79]

Ordered a new tensioner now... Was quoted roughly 200$ at the present excange rate. Jeeez....

The part is located in Holland. Hopefully it's not freighted here by air, as 60% of Europe's air traffic is at a standstill due to a friggin' volcano on Iceland

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Retail in the states is $135, discounted cost is $85.

( OEM motorcycle and ATV parts from Honda, Yamaha & Polaris – Cycle Parts Warehouse ) This is an 07 model.

Its not cheap but a lot less expensive than a new engine. As mentioned above, the spring inside is loosing tension causing the rattle and will eventually fail causing major damage.

Its not hydralic assisted, just a tension spring. BTW, the FJR's use a similar tensioner (same style) with the same problems...

 

[Capo79]

Retail in the states is $135, discounted cost is $85.

( OEM motorcycle and ATV parts from Honda, Yamaha & Polaris – Cycle Parts Warehouse ) This is an 07 model.

Its not cheap but a lot less expensive than a new engine. As mentioned above, the spring inside is loosing tension causing the rattle and will eventually fail causing major damage.

Its not hydralic assisted, just a tension spring. BTW, the FJR's use a similar tensioner (same style) with the same problems...

Yeah, so you agree that it's the tensioner itself that's making noise, not the chain or any other part as a consequence of a faulty tensioner, right?

By the way: The dealer I spoke with, told me he could remember only one other bike with this problem, even though the FZ6 is a very popular bike around here (most selling model in Scandinavia, I believe). In other words, it's not a very common issue as far as I understood it.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I've only owned my FZ for about 1.5 years, my FJR since 2004 so I'm more famiar with the FJR and my KLR.

Its the same set up, and they do fail mostly loosing tension first. One FJR, it didn't make any noise, the spring just broke and destroyed the top end without warning (another forum).

My old Kawasaki KLR 250 (1989) had the same noise, same style tensioner. The problem was the tensioner. Replaced it, was fine after that. I had 73,000 miles on the original KLR chain/guides before I sold it. The KLR chain is easily twice as long as the FZ6 (just the design).

You'll be good after the replacement....

 

[Capo79]

You'll be good after the replacement....

I hope so:thumbup:

 

[Capo79]

The replacement did the trick:thumbup:

Not very difficult either, I had to remove the clutch cable thingy connected to the cluch cover and move the water pump hose out of the way.

The spring inside the new tensioner was wound up with a "lock" in it, which made the reassembly a whole lot easier than it otherwise would be. When in place, I removed the lock and the spring expanded.

The old tensioner was kind of fine, really, except that it rattles if I shake it. Something's loose inside, so I guess it was time to replace it.

Whole job took me about 45 minutes, and the bike sounds a lot better now:Flash:

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Congrates!!!!

 

[borgsted99]

All I can say is definitely change your cam chain tensioner every twenty thousand miles. The hydraulic auto tensioner that is oem on an fz6 just does not have the life span. Mine went at 26000 miles. Capital "N" Noises from the top end. Me scratching my head, then waiting a month and a half while Yamaha rebuilt the engine under warranty. New valves cams cylinders pistons. I can't imagine the cost if I had to pay. I replaced the tensioner again at 45000 miles so as to avoid a repeat performance on my dime. I replaced the chain and guides too, though they looked beautiful when I got inside. Now at 76,000 miles, I'm going to switch to a manual tensioner. I'll let you know how that goes. But definitely DO NOT IGNORE THIS. If you hear noise, it's too late. I can't stress how fundamentally important this lousy little piece is. It is responsible for keeping your engine from literally bashing it's own head in. And it's an easy thing to swap out. Get the YAMAHA factory manual, in actual paper, not cd-rom, and follow it's instructions. Change your tensioner. That's all I can recommend. Other than that, check your four motor mount bolts for wear and torque. They are small, and I've discovered two cracked ones. And anti-sieze everything.
Love,
Simon

 

[Clay350]

I bout my bike 2 weeks ago with 200 miles. Its an 2009. The first day riding I heard the cam chain. It was unmistakable. I thought it was something bad in the valvetrain until I looked on this forum. The thing is that it will only do it after its been thoroughly warmed up. It also won't do it all the time. Sometimes its non existent even after warmed up. I now have 1000 miles. I have changed the oil to no avail. Im thinking manual tensioner is way to go. Im scared to death of that chain coming off. One thing I was thinking about was going to a heavier oil. Im using synthetic 10W 40 now. Im thinking a heavier oil will hold pressure better for the tensioner when warm? So is manual tensioner an option for this bike?

Clay

 

[Kaisersoze]

All I can say is definitely change your cam chain tensioner every twenty thousand miles. The hydraulic auto tensioner that is oem on an fz6 just does not have the life span. Mine went at 26000 miles. Capital "N" Noises from the top end. Me scratching my head, then waiting a month and a half while Yamaha rebuilt the engine under warranty. New valves cams cylinders pistons. I can't imagine the cost if I had to pay. I replaced the tensioner again at 45000 miles so as to avoid a repeat performance on my dime. I replaced the chain and guides too, though they looked beautiful when I got inside. Now at 76,000 miles, I'm going to switch to a manual tensioner. I'll let you know how that goes. But definitely DO NOT IGNORE THIS. If you hear noise, it's too late. I can't stress how fundamentally important this lousy little piece is. It is responsible for keeping your engine from literally bashing it's own head in. And it's an easy thing to swap out. Get the YAMAHA factory manual, in actual paper, not cd-rom, and follow it's instructions. Change your tensioner. That's all I can recommend. Other than that, check your four motor mount bolts for wear and torque. They are small, and I've discovered two cracked ones. And anti-sieze everything.
Love,
Simon

But change my tensioner to another hydraulic or change it to a manual tensioner? Also, does anyone know how you know if you have the proper tension applied with a manual tensioner?

 

[FinalImpact]

I bout my bike 2 weeks ago with 200 miles. Its an 2009. The first day riding I heard the cam chain. It was unmistakable. I thought it was something bad in the valvetrain until I looked on this forum. The thing is that it will only do it after its been thoroughly warmed up. It also won't do it all the time. Sometimes its non existent even after warmed up. I now have 1000 miles. I have changed the oil to no avail. Im thinking manual tensioner is way to go. Im scared to death of that chain coming off. One thing I was thinking about was going to a heavier oil. Im using synthetic 10W 40 now. Im thinking a heavier oil will hold pressure better for the tensioner when warm? So is manual tensioner an option for this bike?

Clay

I wouldn't go down the path of sacrificing proper lubrication to hide a noise. Every time you cold start it, you'll be increasing the wear of the whole engine vs. fixing the real problem. Use the recommended oil and fix the noise.

 

[FinalImpact]

Also - the oil in the tensioner is just for dampening oscillations. The proper spring tension is doing 90% of work, but if the hydraulics are compromised, at various RPMs there will be more uncontrolled oscillations or harmonics in the chain because the dampening system is not being effective.

Like driving your auto on worn shocks and struts you bounce down the road loosing traction over the imperfections in the road when the dampening can not keep up with the change in weight transfer. Its the same as the engine on and off the throttle and a various RPM's.

In short, springs have to be tempered just right or they go flat or snap. Some will last and others will fail.