YAST (Yet Another Suspension Thread)

[rpereira]

Hey all,

Before I try and convince the g/f to let me sort out the suspension I have to ask what is the difference between just changing the springs and upgrading the forks. I have read the threads and it seems that the springs do 80% of a fork upgrade but what is that 20%?

Also what is so great about upside down forks ? And another thing that is bugging me is will that help with the bike tipping in easier for cornering, I find currently you really have to muscle the bike around corners.

And once more what options are there brand wise, I know there is Racetech, Ohlins and Hyperpro - are there any others ?

And Wolfman if you read this I remember asking you about Racetech springs and you said they cost about $200 and I asked where as I got quoted alot more than that !

Thanks

Russ

 

[necrotimus]

I would say the reason 80% is quoted as upgrading the springs is that the springs do all the work. So if you change out the springs you can put in exactly what you want. That being said with the stock forks you ONLY get exactly what you buy the springs at. If you upgrade the forks to adjustable forks then you can change the setup through a range based on the springs.

And of course weight distribution, rider position, and a few other things also will impact your suspension.

 

[Motohead]

The forks have many variables and all make a difference. Springs, valving, oil weight, oil level, preload, and other factors make a difference. Some make a bigger difference than others but any variable can throw off the overall package. To just change springs without changing the valving can be an improvement for the compression stroke but the rebound stroke will not be right. Second, upside down forks have less flex than right side up. My advice is to talk to a few suspension shops and find out if your weight and demands will get you close with springs or springs and revalve. When it comes to suspension, you need to consult with experts, not the internet.

 

[fzme]

The forks have many variables and all make a difference. Springs, valving, oil weight, oil level, preload, and other factors make a difference. Some make a bigger difference than others but any variable can throw off the overall package. To just change springs without changing the valving can be an improvement for the compression stroke but the rebound stroke will not be right. Second, upside down forks have less flex than right side up. My advice is to talk to a few suspension shops and find out if your weight and demands will get you close with springs or springs and revalve. When it comes to suspension, you need to consult with experts, not the internet.

Good points. But with just 16 posts, you shouldn't be so dismissive of help from this site. There are some very well informed opinions here (not all of them). I've gotten more substantial information from the FZ6-forum than every Yamaha shop I've ever been to.

BTW, my well informed opinion is not that well informed.

 

[fzme]

And another thing that is bugging me is will that help with the bike tipping in easier for cornering, I find currently you really have to muscle the bike around corners.

This may have nothing to do with your suspension, and more to do with physical techniques or mental blocks. (But I'll give you some credit--the forks aren't very good) If you're muscling it around corners, you might be gripping too tight on the bars. The amount of force that you have to apply to the bars to turn the bike isn't very much. Flicking the bars decisively into a turn, and then staying loose on the bars while looking through the turn may help you.

 

[Bikebiz]

Changing your forks won't help turn in. For example on a nice smooth road and approaching a turn where you don't need to brake much, your suspension really isn't doing much at all - so changing it won't make a significant difference to steering sensitivity.

Have you tried raising the fork tubes in the yoke at all? This, and tyres, will most significantly impact your steering sensitivity imo.

PS how is the Ohlins shock?

 

[DefyInertia]

Aside from turn-in, which is a geometery issue, what are you trying to accomplish?

Have you tried raising the fork tubes in the yoke at all? This, and tyres, will most significantly impact your steering sensitivity imo.

THIS :thumbup:

 

[rpereira]

Changing your forks won't help turn in. For example on a nice smooth road and approaching a turn where you don't need to brake much, your suspension really isn't doing much at all - so changing it won't make a significant difference to steering sensitivity.

Have you tried raising the fork tubes in the yoke at all? This, and tyres, will most significantly impact your steering sensitivity imo.

PS how is the Ohlins shock?

Hey Cam, thanks for that but have no idea what you are talking about, yoke ??? Yeah it does seem that the OEM tires could be any worse :/ But with just over 800km's on the bike it doesn't seem worth the money to change them :/

I think with my cornering I really feel I don't trust the bike yet (Well probably more the tires!) And as for the rear shock, I have not put it in yet, thought I would find out more about the front as everyone says sort out the front first then the rear. (Oh and I have four springs with it, not three as advertised).

Will probably get it put in when the bike gets serviced. (I would say next week due to bad weather over here!)

 

[Bikebiz]

Ah sorry, so I mean lowering the front end by allowing your forks to come up in the triple clamps. On the named model it takes all of 2 mins. It's only the 4 bolts holding the fork tubes. Factory is the top of the forks flush with the triple clamp (or yoke), and the most you want to go is 1cm above the yoke.

If you have a mate to help it's a quick mod, and easy to reverse if you don't like it.

If you change your mind on the shock you know you have a buyer over the east side

 

[rpereira]

So what are gold leafs and cartridge thingys for the forks ? What do they do ?

Oh and what will lowering the front end do ?

 

[Bikebiz]

So what the cartridge does (which our forks don't have) is vary the openings for the fork oil to travel through, depending on the force applied to the forks. You push down slowly, the holes are large so the fork compresses easily. Push down fast, and the holes close up making them harder to compress.

Cartridge emulators can work well with the above in mind.

 

[tomari]

before you spend a penny on the front, lower it 8mm. ENJOY
then change the fork oil visc to 10 and get 2more mm on the forks. ENJOY
have a set of new Corsa III tyres. ENJOY
once you get bored for third time sell you bike
buy a different bike. ENJOY
start questioning about suspension etc again
...
...
there is no end my brother.....
just dont forget to ENJOY ridding

 

[tomari]

So what the cartridge does (which our forks don't have) is vary the openings for the fork oil to travel through, depending on the force applied to the forks. You push down slowly, the holes are large so the fork compresses easily. Push down fast, and the holes close up making them harder to compress.

Cartridge emulators can work well with the above in mind.

i thought it was the opposite.
we want easy FAST and hard SLOW dont we?

 

[Bikebiz]

No I don't think so. When you jam on the brakes hard you want the forks to be more difficult to compress so that you don't bottom. When you're cruising and hit a small bump you want the fork to easily compress and soak it up.

I think we're saying the same thing though. When you say hard SLOW, you mean the fork compresses slowly. That's what I mean, the fork oil can't travel as quickly through the smaller valve openings so the fork action is slower.

 

[Motohead]

Raising the forks 8mm will surely help the turning but what does it do to stability? With such soft springs I would be afraid of headshake. With no steering dampner, it could get scary braking hard into a corner. Any experience with this?

 

[Bikebiz]

I dropped mine 8mm which worked a treat for the oem tyres. Headshake was up, but I could live with it. When I installed the Pilot Pures, instability was crazy. I popped it back up to stock and it was far better. Now with Pirelli Angels, I left it stock and the turn in is fast, and stability good.

I think it will depend on the tyre as well as your preference for stability. The FZ could do with a damper in any case, so yes be cautious when raising the forks.

 

[rpereira]

Wow still learning even more about suspension despite all those other threads, so anyone know what the gold leaf things are about ? And what upside down forks will fit on a FZ6N?