What an insult!!

[sniff6]

Ok i've just got to get this off my chest.Why is it in America you treat your service men (and women) with the respect they deserve but in the UK we have to allow this.....It make me want......(fill in the blanks).Two years ago we went to florida and at sea world they asked all service people no matter where they were from to stand up and everyone clapped.NEVER would that happen in the uk.

A new group of fanatics — who call themselves Muslims Against the Crusades — branded our brave boys "the death squad" and chanted "go to hell".

Incredibly, the extremists were allowed to protest at the same time, and in the same street in Barking, Essex, as the soldiers' welcome home parade.

Extremists' insult to troops | The Sun |News

 

[reiobard]

in the US we have our share of A$$hole protestors... there is a group that has a sole purpose of going to soldiers funerals and raising a ruckus and calling the deceased a murderer...


Granted the majority of the US know what our young men and women put to risk for the freedoms that we enjoy, so we show them the respect that they have earned...

 

[wolfe1down]

Pure ignorance from a specific group of people who live in a 'have' nation, trying to understand the poorly publicized and articulated, but very difficult and rewarding work of soldiers going on in a 'have not' nation.

I am a Canadian Forces :canada: medic, and have deployed to Afghanistan. I have worked on Operations very closely with the 'Brits' :uk:, and I can tell you that they are a courageous, honourable and very professional group of soldiers.

This demonstration was clearly in poor taste, and should have been organized in a much more sensitive, and appropriate manner...Peacefully, and intelligently.

Just my $0.02 worth.

 

[spine]

hey sniff.I read this in newspaper today. How disgusting! it's not the first time, is it?! The Islam4UK group have done similar thing at Wootton Bassett.
I'm grateful for our boys and girls doing a good job. Granted i am not in favour of the war and don't think its a war that should have took place, but this war has occurred and i am proud of our soldiers who've put their lives on the line.

 

[dblaze]

Sounds about right the UK this really is going to the dogs.

Now you try to protest in their country you would probably get all kinds of body parts cut off or be stoned to death or both.

 

[fureinku]

one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist

you may not like it, but atleast respect it, we all can't be right at the same time

 

[lonesoldier84]

I am Sikh and many ignorant people think that is the same thing as muslim.

Also, many ignorant people think simply being muslim makes someone a terrorist.

So, many times, I see comments online about "all these terrorists should go back to their country" etc etc and they direct these comments towards people who have no part in any of this.

But, this? seriously....they are blatantly pledging allegiance to an enemy faction. Not only is that over the line in a theoretical way, it also would mean that these guys have NO reason to be in the country. How will they integrate into society? They won't.

THESE guys have no business being in that country. I will be the first to say it, because in this case, it makes me shake my head.

Freedom of speech is one thing, but these guys are not voicing their concerns as concerned citizens, they hold views that are terribly at odds with the country itself, and no doubt they hold no love for the country either.

Put them in afghanistan and they would be very happy to grab an AK and set IEDs. They are not British citizens or countrymen.

The danger with taking that line of thought is VERY quickly people who don't belong in that camp get lumped up in it. Proud citizens who love their country but disagree with some political views very quickly get slandered. Then emotions run high and pretty soon the racism starts in.

I've seen it many times.

 

[lonesoldier84]

the far-right English Defence League.

This is the sort of group from where the racism tends to come from.

Now, it should be said that people who protest the war very aggressively but stop short of believing "shariah will be in london before democracy is in afghanistan" and declaring the muslim "war is one", have EVERY right to protest anywhere they damn well please.

Protests and rallies are what democracy is built on. The moment you start to condemn peaceful political activism is the moment you shut your eyes to the potential of truth that lies elsewhere. You become a drone in a propaganda machine. This news article is blatantly biased. But those guys are actively declaring loyalty to an enemy faction. There is no middle-ground or political activism there....this is just a group of thugs that got the spotlight shone on them. I would be surprised if there were many of them.

 

[sniff6]

hey sniff.I read this in newspaper today. How disgusting! it's not the first time, is it?! The Islam4UK group have done similar thing at Wootton Bassett.
I'm grateful for our boys and girls doing a good job. Granted i am not in favour of the war and don't think its a war that should have took place, but this war has occurred and i am proud of our soldiers who've put their lives on the line.

It's true i dont think we should be in afganistan either...and lonesoldier

I am Sikh and many ignorant people think that is the same thing as muslim.

Also, many ignorant people think simply being muslim makes someone a terrorist

no they dont ,sikh is totally different from muslim..sikh regiments fought with great distinction during ww2

 

[stevesnj]

Though I disagree with the protestors if they are allowed to protest why shouldn't they be allowed to? I think freedom of speech and protest is allowed in the UK?

Are they scum? Hell yeh!! I think they are also stupid outing themselves in a public place, now the proper authorities have their photos and I can almost guarantee they are being watched. They should be deported or find anything to get them out of the country.

We have these people here in the US Westboro Baptist Church protests soldier's funeral | Spero News

 

[lonesoldier84]

and lonesoldier
no they dont ,sikh is totally different from muslim..sikh regiments fought with great distinction during ww2

umm....I said ignorant people. The typical ignorant person is unaware of the valiant efforts of those Sikh regiments. We are a proud people, and our religion is one of love and peace and at its core is rooted in true equality at a very deep level and humanitarianism. But we are brown and wear turbans so the ignorant people assume we belong to a minority group of a completely different religion.

Also, there are many caucasian Sikhs as well and the numbers continue to increase. So saying we are all "brown" is actually incorrect. I should mention that we do not preach and "recruit", so I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression. But we feel a great sense of love for our religion so extoll its virtues when asked about it. When I say "we" I mean those that actually practice the religion and are not simply born into it. There are many who misrepresent us.

Some quick info:

Sikh Beliefs

It is worth mentioning that many times people read things like:

After a person dies, his soul is born again in another body, human or animal

One's next life depends on his deeds in the past life

The human life is supreme and it is through this life that we can achieve oneness with God

Finding God takes us out of this life cycle

And get the impression of it being wishy-washy. That is a highly simplified explanation of the beliefs.

To put it differently and hopefully to clarify it, I will offer my own personal interpretation of it:

The word "God" in and of itself means nothing. It is a human concept. The world, universe and all that exists have a quality that is deeply mysterious. We are aware of it and it stirs feelings that many refer to as the "spirit" or "soul" within. To deny that aspect of our existence would be to deny the physical or mental aspects as well. But to think we can wrap our heads around it without great focus is foolish. That focus must come with our actions, our minds, and our souls all focussed with great precision on living in such a way that we bring ourselves to be in tune with that deeply mysterious element. This doesn't happen with hocus-pokus-alamagocus. It happens with opening your eyes and seeing the truth. Sikh literally means "student". We are students of the truth.

That is why a Sikh can find spiritual enlightment from religions outside of Sikhism, as long as those aspects from which that enlightenment comes are rooted in reality and love. I find myself at times understanding some aspect of the "truth" after hearing someone from another religion who has given his religious beliefs great thought and had something to say. That is exactly why freedom of religion is such a great thing. The discourse allows for great growth. We as a species have come this far not because we walled ourselves in, but because we opened those walls and shared with one another. Places that saw the most growth and progress, for example during the Renaissance, were places that had a wide variety of people and concepts.

Nature itself is geared the same way. The moment you restrict the gene pool, the species suffers. Health, wellness, and prosperity come from a vibrant and diverse populace. So, Sikhism is the pursuit of truth. To think you can find the truth walled into your own religion is silly. If we are doing it right, we open our eyes.

Ik Onkar, Satnam. (translated: there is one God, Truth is His name) Not God in the sense of man-in-the-clouds but in terms of the deep mystery and underlying truth in our existence.

That being said, the world and universe is arranged in one very specific manner. Eating healthy and exercising will purify the body. Living right and harbouring only the positive aspects of life in your heart (eg. love, compassion, selflessness, lack of greed, lack of ego, lack of lust, etc etc) will gradually purify the soul. At this point, a routine of meditation that harmonizes your day to day life in tune with that underlying "vibe" and "positive energy" that initially prompted the concept of "soul" in the first place will bring you a deep sense of understanding and contentment.

Now, does this tie in with other religions? Of course it does. The big religions have stuck around because they contain within them truth. The followers have found peace and contentment because they have that truth to warm their souls.

I was very surprised when I had an extremely long conversation with a devout Jewish friend of mine how similar Sikhism and Judaism are in MANY respects.

We live the same life. ALL of us. We happen to be born into different familes, different religions, and different nations. But the existence each of us struggle through is one and the same. Therefore, the truth is one and the same. Satnam. Ik Onkar.

This has been an off-topic post, but when I get started talking about this sort of thing I feel it wrong to leave things half-said.

Cheers.

 

[jtarkany]

Ok i've just got to get this off my chest.Why is it in America you treat your service men (and women) with the respect they deserve but in the UK we have to allow this.....It make me want......(fill in the blanks).Two years ago we went to florida and at sea world they asked all service people no matter where they were from to stand up and everyone clapped.NEVER would that happen in the uk.


Extremists' insult to troops | The Sun |News

Having served 3 years Reguler Army and another 7 years in the National Guard, I very much dislike seeing this sort of thing :shakehead:.

The irony lies in the fact that the very troops that the extremists are protesting are the same troops that uphold democracy and guarantee their freedom of speech to do just this sort of thing.

The leader of the protest states that:

"Islam is not a violent religion but we will use violence if necessary to defend ourselves. Democracy is failing, that was clear as this year we had a hung parliament. Islam is the alternative.

"People in this country are very patriotic. They support Britain even if the country has done something wrong. We want to show that there is an alternative. Sharia law would provide an alternative, it would provide balance in the UK."

Would these protesters be able to exercise this same freedom of speech under Sharia Law? I doubt it :eyebrow:

On another note, Islam is a peaceful religion, so is Christianity (I am a Christian) however that has never stopped people with an agenda from twisting either religion to serve their extremist beliefs and wreak havoc in the world. People of faith need to focus on and follow God, ignorance of ones own religion and a lack of a personal relationship with God leaves them open to being manipulated by someone elses agenda.

 

[Evitzee]

one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist

you may not like it, but at least respect it, we all can't be right at the same time

This type of thinking is part of the problem in post WW-II Europe, and is the nonsense taught by the left in education in the US. Unless we admit that real evil exists in the world and must be confronted instead of believing that terrorists have some sort of legitimate reason for their actions we will continue to have problems. Moral relativism is a dangerous concept to believe in. No, I don't like it and I won't respect it. It's nonsense.

 

[lonesoldier84]

This type of thinking is part of the problem in post WW-II Europe, and is the nonsense taught by the left in education in the US. Unless we admit that real evil exists in the world and must be confronted instead of believing that terrorists have some sort of legitimate reason for their actions we will continue to have problems. Moral relativism is a dangerous concept to believe in. No, I don't like it and I won't respect it. It's nonsense.

That VERY same logic could be used by a British citizen during the time of the American Revolution to say, "The Boston Tea Party was a terrorist action. I don't like it and I won't respect them, kill all the rebel Americans and let's get serious about it. Take troops out of India and abroad to quash this rebellion."

And all of a sudden....no more USA....you would cease to exist as a nation.

It is very easy to preach when your own struggles are behind you.

That being said, Sharia law in England is ludicrous. Islam taking over because of a hung parliament? That actually made me smirk a little, I won't lie.

P.S. Real evil does exist in the world. But not every "terrorist" is evil. Take the upheavals in the far east. If you swallow the word "terrorist" every time you hear it, you are just a drone eating propaganda up with a spoon. Many of the upheavals happening as we speak in the far east are being labelled as terrorist actions by the ruling governments.

 

[macem29]

lone....quick question, and I'm not being a smart ass, are you able to wear
your traditional headgear under your helmet?

 

[Evitzee]

Real evil does exist in the world. But not every "terrorist" is evil.

Could you please give me an example of when a terrorist, i.e., a person who uses deliberate violent, often deadly, actions on innocent civilians to coerce and advance an idelogical goal is not evil? Key words: deliberate, deadly, civilians. Just trying to get a reference point to appropriately judge the next suicide bomber at a school, wedding or house of worship.

 

[lonesoldier84]

Could you please give me an example of when a terrorist, i.e., a person who uses deliberate violent, often deadly, actions on innocent civilians to coerce and advance an idelogical goal is not evil? Key words: deliberate, deadly, civilians. Just trying to get a reference point to appropriately judge the next suicide bomber at a school, wedding or house of worship.

Governments label people as terrorists that have not done what you speak of. In some places, simply being in opposition to the ruling party and fighting for what you believe in is enough to be deemed a terrorist. They take the actions of a minority few fundamentalists and put that label on EVERYONE who believes in the same cause.

Example: There is a cause people are fighting for. A small group of hardliners resort to killing civilians. Now, EVERYONE who is fighting for that cause is labelled a terrorist.

Want a specific example? The many people who want a separate Khalistan state in India, but are labelled terrorists by the Indian and Canadian government even though they CONDEMN the actions against civilians as vehemently as do the rest of the Canadian populace.

 

[deeptekkie]

Ok i've just got to get this off my chest.Why is it in America you treat your service men (and women) with the respect they deserve but in the UK we have to allow this.....It make me want......(fill in the blanks).Two years ago we went to florida and at sea world they asked all service people no matter where they were from to stand up and everyone clapped.NEVER would that happen in the uk.



Extremists' insult to troops | The Sun |News

None of them get the respect or appreciation that they deserve! Not taking away from what you say about the U.S. but it certainly wasn't that way after Vietnam. It was terrible, (I thought), the way this country treated the veterans from 'Nam.
Anytime any of us get a chance we should thank these folks whenever possible. Sometimes I see these older guys wearing a cap with their group's insignia on it, I thank them for their service and occasionally some of them will tear-up, (like it's the first time they've ever heard that or something).
Whether people agree with a war or not, it's not the soldier's fault that they are there. So many people seem to blame the troops for heaven's sake! Hello? Do they think those guys and gals WANT to be there in harm's way, away from their families, uncomfortable and scared?
Listen, I'm about to get on a rant here. I just want to thank you for your post and I can sympathize with what you say. Thanks!

 

[DaveOTZ]

1- This is the SUN... Look at the cover of the rag as comment on the quality of the journalism

2- The arguments delivered by the leader are inconsistent and scattered like a High Schooler that is protesting the banning of soda in the vending machines. At one point he argues for Shariah as a fair alternative for democracy, Shariah is a set of laws, if they are voted in by a majority they are democratic laws (not that I see that happening anytime soon), Then he argues that UBL is no more of a terrorist than the soldiers, which is preposterous considering the power position of UBL vs that of a soldier, not to mention the lack of compliance with home and global laws regarding war and the degree to each follow them. Then he calls them rapists. And the name of the organization is "The Muslims Against Crusades", but then they are suggesting religious law in place of state law. Like they say about most angry youths, if he had a half a brain he'd be dangerous.

3- Squashing the demonstration would be wrong... Moral high ground is what provides you with allies. In a world where people have to be going to the ovens before a coalition of the willing will intervene. It is a very small lump of pride to swallow. Also, while the soldiers have bravely and righteously acted on behalf of their country the training they have received is flawed for not preparing them for what they will face upon return.... It is unfair and foolish for the leaders of warriors to tell them they will be revered and will be greeted as liberators...

 

[Lefty]

I think in the U.S. (a generalization) is that most people no matter what their political viewpoints are appreciate the sacrifices the men and women in uniform make for their country. I try and thank every serviceman, or servicewomen, I see on the street or at the airport. It's the very least I can do.