Upgrading the Front End

[durty3]

Some of you may remember my post from a couple of weeks ago after my weekend staring down the inside of a fork tube. A little update on the bike after that fun.

The new All-Balls head bearing is sweet (although some adjustment might be in order); the Bel-Ray fork fluid, 10 wt, is tolerable; and the springs are in upside down. All in all, we are doing good.

I took the MSF advanced riding course this weekend on the bike, I learned a lot and got much more comfortable with the bike.

Now I am wondering about the next steps to making the front end better. I definitely think that additional damping is a good thing. I was thinking Maxima 10wt due to its high viscosity index.

What about springs? I only know Racetechs, thoughts on these? Other brands to consider.

I am 165 and 6 feet tall. I ride on the street, not aggressively.

Thanks!

 

[kinderwood]

The new All-Balls head bearing is sweet (although some adjustment might be in order)

You mean adjustments to the preload (torque)?

Now I am wondering about the next steps to making the front end better. I definitely think that additional damping is a good thing. I was thinking Maxima 10wt due to its high viscosity index.

What about springs? I only know Racetechs, thoughts on these? Other brands to consider.

I am 165 and 6 feet tall. I ride on the street, not aggressively.

Thanks!

I've heard only good things about Racetech. Progressive suspension is another name that comes up sometimes. Springs and gold valve cartridge emulators from Racetech are on my list of mods to do. For the front end the mods usually go something like:
oil->springs->cart emulator->replace with r6 forks
In order from least money and easiest to hardest and more money.

 

[durty3]

You mean adjustments to the preload (torque)?

Yes, the torque. My understanding is that the factory torque spec is meaningless as it applies to ball bearings. Front end is solid, but I noticed that after 45 minutes of highway riding it seems like the handlebars get tight and don't want to turn. Is this the bearings? My thought is that the the metal expands a bit under load and then it tightens up?

I've heard only good things about Racetech. Progressive suspension is another name that comes up sometimes. Springs and gold valve cartridge emulators from Racetech are on my list of mods to do. For the front end the mods usually go something like:
oil->springs->cart emulator->replace with r6 forks
In order from least money and easiest to hardest and more money.

I think I am only at the spring point. I looked at Progressive Suspension, but they don't list a spring for the FZ6.

 

[VEGASRIDER]

My steering head bearing were replaced with the All Balls tapered bearing due to my stock bearing failing. I also upgraded my front suspension with Racetech springs suited for my weight, and also replaced the fork oil with a heavier weight as well.

 

[durty3]

My steering head bearing were replaced with the All Balls tapered bearing due to my stock bearing failing. I also upgraded my front suspension with Racetech springs suited for my weight, and also replaced the fork oil with a heavier weight as well.

I think I am on the exact same page. Can you share your weight and riding style? What brand and weight oil did you use. The Bel Ray 10 wt I got at the Yam dealer has a lower viscosity index than stock!

 

[Hellgate]

Having done both mods; Race Tech and R6S forks, just go with the R6S forks and be done with it. It's that big of a difference.

 

[motojoe122]

^^
Same here!
The forks are the way to go.

 

[FinalImpact]

^^
Same here!
The forks are the way to go.

^^
Same here!
The R6 forks are the way to go. :thumbup:

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Yamaha's 00 designation for viscosity is said to be around 5 wt. I have also read in another place its as much as 7 weight.

When I changed mine, visably, it appeared to be at least 10 wt BUT it did have 18,000 miles and was just beginning to smell.

I replaced with 7 wt Maxima but wouldn't hesitate going to 10wt(no less then 7 wt)


As for your New steering bearings, you DO NOT want any binding.

They should be tight BUT move smoothly from side to side

 

[kinderwood]

My understanding is that the factory torque spec is meaningless as it applies to ball bearings. Front end is solid, but I noticed that after 45 minutes of highway riding it seems like the handlebars get tight and don't want to turn. Is this the bearings? My thought is that the the metal expands a bit under load and then it tightens up?

I think I am only at the spring point. I looked at Progressive Suspension, but they don't list a spring for the FZ6.

Good point about factory torque and needle bearings. The "rule of thumb" I've heard is that with the forks suspended and centered you should be able to gently push the bars and have them fall to left or right lock. See here for a video example:
https://youtu.be/dYUL4siK82o?t=10m48s
I think this test would get you in the ballpark. This would be the absolute loose end of "ok" preload. So you could set it to this point, and then gradually tighten it up until you feel comfortable with it.

The exact and "correct" method to set preload.....is to measure preload! If you're not familiar, it's done using a linear force gauge (spring or electronic). They look like a fish scale, same design only lighter weights being measured. You center the forks, attach the spring gauge to grips, and then pull. The spring stretches and marks allow measurement of force applied. Right when the bars actually start to turn, there's your preload. Yamaha specs the preload at 200g-500g. This is on page 3-27 in the 2007 service manual (under periodic checks and maintenance).

Searches for these gauges usually turn up pretty expensive calibrated units for scientific & commercial use, but if you poke around you can find cheapo ones for educational or whatever use. Such as this guy here for <$5.
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Ajax-Scientific-Plastic-Tubular-Capacity/dp/B00EPQGS9M/ref=pd_sim_indust_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=0FGX598HS7VRF3TQGBPK"]1000g Spring Scale[/ame]

Bearing races are hardened steel, I don't think you'd get any expansion.

 

[LeeFZ]

^^
Same here!
The R6 forks are the way to go. [emoji106]

You mean swapping the whole thing with R6 forks? How is the performance then?

 

[kinderwood]

All that being said, the question still is, does the factory ball bearing preload spec apply to the roller bearings? I emailed All Balls this question as I'm interested in switching to them when my factory bearings give out.

 

[kinderwood]

Sounds like the factory spec will work. Reply from All Balls copied below.

Thomas,

Thanks for emailing in!

General rule of thumb is 15-25 ft/lbs on the spanner nut with our kit. But in many cases the OEM spec will work just fine. Tighten it up to your comfort level (some like the feeling to be a little tighter and others who may rider a lot of city like the steering to feel lose).

Hope that helps, but if you have any further questions please feel free to reach out!

Alex Kretz
All Balls Racing

 

[aclayonb]

Just do the R6S fork upgrade. I got a pair off of ebay with only cosmetic blemishes for $200. Another $80 on the fender mod kit and it's good to go. Took out all of the nose dive and it's much more solid in deep leans / turns. It's really an easy swap. The hardest part was waiting for a decent set of straight forks to turn up on ebay.

 

[FinalImpact]

Sounds like the factory spec will work. Reply from All Balls copied below.

IME - BBs get very crunchy if preload is excessive. Tapered rollers tolerate more preload and tend to just get firm. Make sure they rotate free but have ZERO FREE PLAY!!!

OEM spec calls out this:
1. First, tighten the ring nut to approximately 52 Nm (5.2 m·kg, 38 ft·lb) with a torque wrench, then loosen the ring nut completely.
2. Retighten the lower ring nut to specification.
Lower ring nut (final tightening torque) 18 Nm (1.8 m·kg, 13 ft·lb)

Final TEST IS THIS: Spec is a pull force needed to move the bars... Steering head tension: 200–500g << No matter which Bearings you use, this test determines the ring nut torque.

So if the initial 13ft/lbs is too much or too little, adjust to obtain desired pull force. I did not see anything about upper ring nut torque. Tight enough it doesn;t come loose!

As for the R6/R6S forks - best money i ever spent! Night and day in the corners. It makes the bike predictable and MUCH EASIER TO stay its course or change course mid corner and remain care free..... I have thread on it... R6 Forks, Best Investment Ever....

 

[ChanceCoats123]

I'll have to agree with the general consensus that the R6 forks are the best move you can make on a stock bike. Being 3-way adjustable means you can get them to feel exactly how you want them on the road, and the front tire will feel much more planted and confidence inspiring. The only problem is that you'll want that kind of adjustability on the rear shock too, and the next thing you know you'll have an R1 shock waiting for you at home... Ask me how I know.

 

[kinderwood]

I'll have to agree with the general consensus that the R6 forks are the best move you can make on a stock bike. Being 3-way adjustable means you can get them to feel exactly how you want them on the road, and the front tire will feel much more planted and confidence inspiring. The only problem is that you'll want that kind of adjustability on the rear shock too, and the next thing you know you'll have an R1 shock waiting for you at home... Ask me how I know.

Sorry to hijack a bit, but hopefully this adds to the discussion at hand. From a technical standpoint I get the 3-way adjustable cartridge R6 forks are better than even the modified FZ6 damping rod forks. But I'm not sure if I could personally take advantage of the benefits.

1) Would you say the advantage still holds true at the stock R6 fork adjustment settings? Meaning, if you weren't to customize the settings.

2) For someone who has no prior experience adjusting rebound & compression damping, how hard is it to dial-in? I have no "feel" for high speed vs low speed impact or large vs small impacts, it's not something I've had to observe before. Any guides you would recommend for newbies in particular?

 

[ChanceCoats123]

Sorry to hijack a bit, but hopefully this adds to the discussion at hand. From a technical standpoint I get the 3-way adjustable cartridge R6 forks are better than even the modified FZ6 damping rod forks. But I'm not sure if I could personally take advantage of the benefits.

1) Would you say the advantage still holds true at the stock R6 fork adjustment settings? Meaning, if you weren't to customize the settings.

2) For someone who has no prior experience adjusting rebound & compression damping, how hard is it to dial-in? I have no "feel" for high speed vs low speed impact or large vs small impacts, it's not something I've had to observe before. Any guides you would recommend for newbies in particular?

To answer directly:

1. It would depend upon the settings of the forks. Depending upon rider weight and bike setup, the stock settings for the R6 forks could be as far, or even farther off than the stock FZ6 forks. The true advantage of the R6 forks is not so much superior technology, but more so the increase in adjustability which allows a rider to fit the bike exactly to their needs.

2. I actually started a thread with a similar question and I got great responses. There are tons of videos online (which I watched a few of) that help make sense of the different settings. If you can have someone else help you set static and rider sag levels, then it's very easy to dial in the correct settings from there. Once pre-load is set, rebound damping should be set for a single bounce upon fork compression (forks should compress once, then bounce up to the top of their motion and back to normal position). Compression damping is more of a rider preference, so I'd recommend setting in the middle and tuning after a ride or two.

 

[kinderwood]

If you can have someone else help you set static and rider sag levels, then it's very easy to dial in the correct settings from there. Once pre-load is set, rebound damping should be set for a single bounce upon fork compression (forks should compress once, then bounce up to the top of their motion and back to normal position). Compression damping is more of a rider preference, so I'd recommend setting in the middle and tuning after a ride or two.

Very good, thanks. Having a recommended "procedure" like that to start wth gives a good baseline until more experience develops. This gives me something to think about, racetech vs R6.

 

[FinalImpact]

Look and watch these....

Bike setup vid w/ Dave Moss.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ikjw4IheeF4
Tire wear patterns.... Race Track Motorcycle Tyre Wear Guide - Types and Causes
Bike Setup Tech article..... Motorcycle Suspension Set-up

I've logged about 13,000 miles since the fork Swap! The bike holds its line so much better with both ends fixed via improved and adjustable damping. Like Chance says, once you fix the nose, then you see how the back isn't what it could be. Not saying you have to change it, just saying if its only purpose is canyon carving, it can use a little help back there too!

This link has links to installing R6 forks and R1 shock... 08 FZ6 Build thread ~Final Impact~ I'd say I'm in it less than $400 to really Fix the suspension. Its great trade off! Far more rewarding than muffler install!