Tubular Stainless Steel Frame

[abraxas]

I am investigating options in building a new frame for the fazer. It would likely be tubular stainless steel, done by an engineering shop. When i discussed this with the engineer, who is also looking for a bike, he replied that he'd make himself a frame, too. Then he could source an engine etc.

If we did it, he would set the whole thing up on a jig, ie properly. He would then be able to make as many as he wanted to, all exactly the same.

Would there be any interest from any of you to getting something like this?

 

[Naykid]

I am investigating options in building a new frame for the fazer. It would likely be tubular stainless steel, done by an engineering shop. When i discussed this with the engineer, who is also looking for a bike, he replied that he'd make himself a frame, too. Then he could source an engine etc.

If we did it, he would set the whole thing up on a jig, ie properly. He would then be able to make as many as he wanted to, all exactly the same.

Would there be any interest from any of you to getting something like this?

Dude....they already make a good frame for a fazer/fz6. It's called an R6 and you and your "engineering" buddy won't come close to making a better one that that.

 

[turbid]

what do you have in mind? just to do a frame for the heck of it no i wouldn't do but if you have something in mind maybe that s a different story.

 

[abraxas]

Will an R6 frame take my engine and all the other bits?

I don't know, and i'm trying to find out.

Since i refuse to trust this fz6 alloy frame, i need options. Engineering my own i would at least have trust in the overall strength.

 

[macem29]

can't say I'd want one, but will make one heck of an interesting project,
would be a ton of work incorporating mounts for all the stuff, it'll certainly
be heavier so handling/braking will be affected, polished/clear coat finish
would look awesome.....you'd basically be building a new bike, title will be
gone with the scrap frame, though I suppose you could fab a SN plate
and attach it to the new frame and fool 9/10 cops with the old #, be sure
to post up some pics if you do this

 

[abraxas]

The origional frame is 37 pounds. Roughly 20 odd kilograms. Hard to beat.

The reason i'm looking at this, is a new frame is going to be 10 thousand odd rand, r6 frame is more like 15 thousand. Plus 14% vat on both.

I don't have that much money, it's cheaper to engineer something brand new. Which says quite a lot, actually. If i do it this way, then maybe someone else (trackbike) can also benefit.

 

[sonic]

I can understand if one just wants a custom one off bike, but the reason you are wanting to do this is absurd. You are not going to engineer a stronger, lighter and more readily available race frame than the R6 unit. Have you searched for R6 frames on ebay and craigslist? They are a dime a dozen.

And what do you mean by: "Since i refuse to trust this fz6 alloy frame"?

 

[uclajoebruin]

I can understand if one just wants a custom one off bike, but the reason you are wanting to do this is absurd. You are not going to engineer a stronger, lighter and more readily available race frame than the R6 unit. Have you searched for R6 frames on ebay and craigslist? They are a dime a dozen.

And what do you mean by: "Since i refuse to trust this fz6 alloy frame"?

I'd have to say I agree. It just seems like the amount of R&D to build a custom one-off frame would be more than it takes to find a good used R6 frame and make it work for your application. How much testing are you guys going to do with the frame to make sure it won't crack during high stress riding conditions?

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I have a soft spot for steel tubular frames. I think a steel trellis frame similar to Ducatis would make for an awesome looking and handling FZ6. And more power to you if that's what you'd like to do with your FZ6. :rockon:

 

[sublime0713]

And what do you mean by: "Since i refuse to trust this fz6 alloy frame"?

I think he's got a cracked frame from a previous drop.

 

[Wavex]

I hope your engineer knows what he is doing (and has experience in building motorcycle frames) because putting a high performance engine into a custom frame is dangerous business if you don't know what you're doing...

The FZ6 frame was designed specifically for that engine, and not just to hold it in place... there are a number of tensile, elastic, torsional...etc forces involved and the frame was designed to "flex" around the engine depending on what you're doing on the bike (accelerating, braking, leaning etc...), so again, I hope you know what you're doing.

Either way, this will require an enormous amount of time to design, test via trial/error (unless you have proper simulation software handy) and implement, so good luck and keep us updated!

 

[Hellgate]

Look up the NCR Ti frame for the 1098/1198s, total jewelry.

 

[Wavex]

Cheap too huh Pete?

 

[Naykid]

I hope your engineer knows what he is doing (and has experience in building motorcycle frames) because putting a high performance engine into a custom frame is dangerous business if you don't know what you're doing...

The FZ6 frame was designed specifically for that engine, and not just to hold it in place... there are a number of tensile, elastic, torsional...etc forces involved and the frame was designed to "flex" around the engine depending on what you're doing on the bike (accelerating, braking, leaning etc...), so again, I hope you know what you're doing.

Either way, this will require an enormous amount of time to design, test via trial/error (unless you have proper simulation software handy) and implement, so good luck and keep us updated!

Exactly right..,..and thanks for posting that. I didn't have the patience to explain to a newb why Yamaha pays it's engineers big money.
Not only that...but you wouldn't make a "stainless steel" motorcycle frame to start with. That just shows he doesn't have a clue about frame building.

 

[Hellgate]

Cheap too huh Pete?

And good looking too!

I've no idea what they cost. I'd guess at least $15,000? A custom Ti bicycle frame is about $2,000.

 

[Wavex]

Exactly right..,..and thanks for posting that. I didn't have the patience to explain to a newb why Yamaha pays it's engineers big money.
Not only that...but you wouldn't make a "stainless steel" motorcycle frame to start with. That just shows he doesn't have a clue about frame building.

Why the condescending tone though? We're all newbs in some ways...

 

[Fred]

I would skip stainless. It's very heavy and is a total pain in the butt to weld. It warps a lot when welded, so unless you have a really rigid jig and a very good welder, you're going to have some problems with it.

If I was doing a frame, my first choice would be Titanium. But that's bloody expensive, so the next option would be either aluminum or chrome moly steel.

Aluminum is lighter but also weaker. But with a good design, you can keep the weight down and still have a strong frame.

Fred

 

[fzme]

I didn't have the patience to explain to a newb why Yamaha pays it's engineers big money.
Not only that...but you wouldn't make a "stainless steel" motorcycle frame to start with. That just shows he doesn't have a clue about frame building.

Easy, buddy. What are you so angry about? If this guy wants to try to build a frame, and is serious enough to seek advice from multiple sources, then more power to him! I say go for it. Why try to bring him down? If he gets as much positive feedback as you're willing to give in negative feedback, he'll be an engineer someday. No success comes without failure, and in reality, for every success, there are dozens of failures--that's how you find out what works, by screwing it up over and over...
You don't have time to deal with some newb, but you have time to bash him for being ignorant?" Well, please enlighten all of us with your wealth of knowledge on the subject and perhaps inspire our new friend, or someone else.

 

[Hellgate]

I would skip stainless. It's very heavy and is a total pain in the butt to weld. It warps a lot when welded, so unless you have a really rigid jig and a very good welder, you're going to have some problems with it.

If I was doing a frame, my first choice would be Titanium. But that's bloody expensive, so the next option would be either aluminum or chrome moly steel.

Aluminum is lighter but also weaker. But with a good design, you can keep the weight down and still have a strong frame.

Fred

I agree that CrMo is the way to go, light, very strong and a high tensile.

Years ago a buddy of mine was roadracing and I'd just bought a custom made bicycle frame, Columbus SLX tube set. Anywho my buddy asked me to ask the frame builder if he'd do a motorcycle frame. The response was, "NO WAY!" Regardless this project can justify may trips to the Ducati dealership. :thumbup:

Here's a 4130 supplier: http://www.aedmotorsport.com/4130/roundtube.htm

 

[fzme]

DO IT ABRAXAS!! And post pics! Oh, and be careful...you're likely not going to get it right the first time, but give it time and wear ATGATT.

 

[Shiloh]

I think a Ducati trellis type frame from 4130 tubing would be incredible. 4130 is less expensive than SS, easier to work/weld and has excellent mechanical properties. Ti is actually probably too expensive and welding is tricky, and in bicycle frames is known as very flexible, at least mine is flexible.

That's why 4130 is what I would opt for in material.