true...but then thats not really what im looking for.. my corbin i asume is leather thats a bit slipery with my leather pants, so i really would like something more on the leather side, but not as slippery... and i would like something a bit on the softer side, but i dont want something i cant move around on... this is basically why im asking.. i do some spirited riding on ocasion, so i really would rather not have that type... thanks alot for the input man.. good to have information for others :thumbup: