Strange Handling

[jsalman93]

Hi everyone. This may be a bit difficult to explain, but it seems like my bike has been handling strangely lately. I had a light parking lot lay down a few months ago and while I can honestly say that it does affect me mentally, I have a strong feeling that there is something wrong with the handling for my bike. It is able to turn left alright, but on my right hand turns it seems like the bike doesn't feel as planted. Also if let go of the handlebars the bike pulls to the left a fair amount. I know that this doesn't have to do with my throttle control or anything mental. Also the bike seems to be affected by road imperfections much more so than normal, even on perfectly smooth roads. Here are a few of my theories on what might be the problem

Rear wheel off balance- Could this be possble from a light parking lot drop. I just replaced the rear tire so I wouldn't imagine it being a possibility, but then again my previous tire didn't give me such a crappy ride on the street

Chain misaligned - My chain is a bit old and is due for replacing. However, I recently aligned it with a motion pro tool and that did help with handling a bit, but didn't help at all with how it handles bumps on the road

Fork may be slightly bent - I highly doubt it, but it's a thought and i've heard that it's possible.

Any help would be great, as I really want to find out what might be causing this

Cheers
Geo

 

[outasight20]

My first thought when reading your post was that it is all in your head. However, if anything on the bike was loose (but happened to be adjusted correctly) before the drop, it is possible that something got tweaked. I would check your rear wheel alignment, tightness of the steering head, check all nuts and bolts for tightness, check tire pressure. How fast were you going when you dropped it? It is possible the forks got bent a little, but unlikely unless you hit something pretty hard.

Also, your chain being misaligned is a direct result of your rear tire/sprocket being misaligned. I'm guessing this is what you adjusted when you used the Motion Pro tool. To check your rear tire balance, just throw the bike on the center stand, sit on it, lean forward, grab the front brake, and accelerate gently in 6th gear (You may have to get it going pretty fast). You shouldn't feel any shaking as the speed increases. If you do, the tire is out of balance.

 

[jsalman93]

I think I'm gonna try changing the chain and sprockets this weekend to see if that helps, as both of them are pretty beat up, but seem to be in alignment. I dropped it in a u turn going less than ten miles an hour and i have frame sliders, so i dont imagine it being the forks, but then again u never know. I have heard that for smaller drops, there could be a slight tweak in the forks and that it's a good idea to "reset" the forks by loosening and tightening them again. Any ideas about that

I'll try the ur method today after i get home. I really feel like it's going to just be something stupid like a loose bolt or something. The bike handles great otherwise

 

[FinalImpact]

Nothing personal but I WOULD NOT ADVISE running the bike to even 20MPH on the CENTER STAND!!! Bad things happen to good people for no good reason. Besides, this IS NOT part of your handling issue; vibration unless shaking the bike making the tire leave the ground (over exaggeration) is not a handling issue but it could be related.

As best I can tell you mention at least three different things; the way it turns, a vibration, and how it handles bumps. I could go into great detail on all of these topics and they may all be valid. However, I would suggest you find an experienced rider, maybe even forum member and have them look over your bike and ride it.

Vibrations come from many things; chain too tight and not properly cleaned and lubricated is likely #1.

It could turn different left than right if the forks have shifted. For the most part this can be seen by placing it on the center stand and getting the bars perfectly straight. Now stand up and look over the nose. Is the fender dead ahead?

How it reacts to bumps. This bike has very soft suspension. Depending on your weight, it could be very squirelly if the rear is set to the lower (less than 3 positions) and you're greater than 200lbs. Bump the spring preload up to 5 or even 7. Also - set the correct tire pressure front and rear.

Lets see if anyone lives near you and can lend a hand. Guys/Gals??

 

[jsalman93]

I live in Pasadena, Ca and if any experienced rider would be be up for giving it a test ride that would be great. My tire pretty and rear preload are perfectly set so i can rule those two out. I'm really leaning towards it either being the front forks (which doesn't seem very likely), or the chain, which is due to be replaced. I think after I change the chain and sprockets if I continue to have this problem then I might end up either having an experienced rider try it out or taking it to a stealership and throwing money at them until the problem gets fixed (as you can imagine, that seems like a pretty dumb idea when I'm fairly certain I can find the answer on the forum.

PS: I am running new Metzler Roadtec Z6 tires if anyone is thinking that it may be my tires causing the problem.

Is there any way to tell if the fork are misaligned other than looking down the front end, seems a bit vague for me. It would be nice to have a method that would give me a closer judgment of alignment. Not that I doubt the method, just curious. I'm gonna give that a shot nonetheless.

 

[04fizzer]

My guess, if there's anything wrong, could be the forks are slightly tweaked in the triple clamps. I'd concentrate on the front of the bike and not worry about anything you mentioned on the back, because they're not your issue.

 

[FinalImpact]

If the bars are straight and the wheel is turned, then its going to go that direction when you hold the bars straight. Loosen the forks and align the nose. However this is different than a bike that PULLS to one side.

So I ask, which is it; if goes the direction you point it, straighten the fork alignment to the bars. But what you describe is that when you let go of the bars it goes left/right. That is pull which is a tracking issue typically induced by the rear of the bike.

Not everyone likes this but if you have some string and tape you can string align the rear and verify the chain tool worked properly. http://www.600riders.com/forum/how-tos/40463-how-string-align-your-rear-wheel.html

Don't get all caught up in the front tire being perfectly straight ahead, as you'll see big issues fast. Also, have you cleaned and lubed the chain yet? Make sure each roller spins free and verify there are no kinks in the chain.

 

[outasight20]

A rear tire out of alignment will not cause the bike to drift left or right. An object in motion tends to stay in motion in a straight line unless acted on by an outside force (handlebar input). When your rear tire is out of alignment, the bike will go straight but the bars (and front wheel) will be off to one side to compensate. You will essentially be riding down the road crooked. But it won't cause the bike to drift to one side or the other. I really think it may be in your head, that's why you should get another person to ride it before you start wasting time and money.

 

[jsalman93]

Being perfectly realistic, I know that it's not in my head, as I have no problem with leaning the bike over or riding quickly. The drop was a light parking lot drop (s$%t happens kinda thing).

I put my bike up on the center stand and slowly put it up to speed (about 20 mph) and noticed that the chain was making a lot of noise and it looked like there might be a tight spot in it, as it would tighten up at a certain point on every revolution. I still need to find time to change the chain and sprocket (both of which need to be changed anyway so it's not a waste of time or money), so I find out if that may be the problem. The chain is in alignment, as I checked it with the motion pro alignment tool. Could it be the wheel being out of alignment, as that might explain the bike taking bumps so terribly? I kind of doubt it but just trying to find some other opinions

 

[FinalImpact]

Could it be the wheel being out of alignment, as that might explain the bike taking bumps so terribly? I kind of doubt it but just trying to find some other opinions

Not likely. Q? Has it EVER been OK in your opinion?
How much do you weigh? The reason i ask is, the more the back goes down, the lighter the steering gets to a point of being very sensitive.
Is it not practical to clean and lube the chain a couple times to smooth it up until it can be replaced?

 

[FinalImpact]

If the bars are straight and the wheel is turned, then its going to go that direction when you hold the bars straight. Loosen the forks and align the nose. However this is different than a bike that PULLS to one side.

So I ask, which is it; if goes the direction you point it, straighten the fork alignment to the bars. But what you describe is that when you let go of the bars it goes left/right. That is pull which is a tracking issue typically induced by the rear of the bike.

Not everyone likes this but if you have some string and tape you can string align the rear and verify the chain tool worked properly. http://www.600riders.com/forum/how-tos/40463-how-string-align-your-rear-wheel.html

Don't get all caught up in the front tire being perfectly straight ahead, as you'll see big issues fast. Also, have you cleaned and lubed the chain yet? Make sure each roller spins free and verify there are no kinks in the chain.

A rear tire out of alignment will not cause the bike to drift left or right. An object in motion tends to stay in motion in a straight line unless acted on by an outside force (handlebar input). When your rear tire is out of alignment, the bike will go straight but the bars (and front wheel) will be off to one side to compensate. You will essentially be riding down the road crooked. But it won't cause the bike to drift to one side or the other. I really think it may be in your head, that's why you should get another person to ride it before you start wasting time and money.

So lets agree on words; the tracking will be off. i.e. if the rear alignment is substantially off, it can crab walk (ride crooked) which also means the bars will be turned while going straight. In a strange twist of "could that really happen", well I'd guess it could. IN ADDITION; could the forks be twisted from the axle and give a rider a strange feeling, yes. That could happen also. Will any of this give the rider the feeling of drifting or moving at an angle vs straight ahead, well that depends how sensitive they are.

 

[outasight20]

So lets agree on words; the tracking will be off. i.e. if the rear alignment is substantially off, it can crab walk (ride crooked) which also means the bars will be turned while going straight. In a strange twist of "could that really happen", well I'd guess it could. IN ADDITION; could the forks be twisted from the axle and give a rider a strange feeling, yes. That could happen also. Will any of this give the rider the feeling of drifting or moving at an angle vs straight ahead, well that depends how sensitive they are.

You're absolutely right. I've had my rear tire out of alignment. Even a small deviation from dead center makes a noticeable difference in the handlebars when you are riding (They are turned slightly when going straight). Bent forks I have not personally experienced, but they would definitely cause strange handling.

 

[greg]

could also be that you are gripping the bars harder as you are more nervous, which could be affecting the handling

 

[jsalman93]

Yeah the bike handling seemed to be great when I had my last set of tires on. I'm starting to think that it may be either the chain or rear wheel alignment. I checked the forks and even "reset" them and I didn't notice any difference. Originally I had a set of supersport tires on, but i switched to the Roadtecs about two months before dropping the bike. I weight close to 150lbs and am about 5"'6. I'm considering putting some Dynabeads in the rear tire in case the alignment may be slightly off (dumb idea? I imagine it can't do any harm)
I am perfectly fine with giving the chain a kerosene bath if that would help, but how would I know if that would bring life back into the chain. I've heard that you can measure the distance between 5 links or something like that to know if the chain has been stretched out too much and needs to be replaced. Pardon my lack of knowledge in this, as typically I would just replace it.

 

[jsalman93]

could also be that you are gripping the bars harder as you are more nervous, which could be affecting the handling

No, not at all. I am not more nervous when I ride. Honestly, I'm actually much more comfortable with riding now, as I took the advanced MSF class a few weeks after and watched a twist of the wrist 2 a few times since then. If it were me grabbing the bars too much it would result in extra bumpiness, but not a pulling to the left.

 

[jsalman93]

I'll probably post a youtube video link that might be able to help give some more details. Not sure if ill be able to do that soon yet, as I've been ridiculously busy with school, but the more I think about it and hear your guys opinions the more I'm leaning towards:

1) Rear wheel out of alignment - Could be, the dealership that installed my rear tire could have messed it up. I can check the alignment, but dont have a stand and really can't validate spending any more money at Harbor Freight for more tools

2) Chain - It's a possibility. It makes a lot of road noise, so that could mean that it is close to being replaced. I don't think the previous owner knew what chain lube or maintenance was. Anyone know how to check chain life, aside from looking at the swingarm notches (i would like to check with calipers, much more accurate).

 

[FinalImpact]

Help me out here but I think trying to throw solutions at unrelated problems looking for a fix. In short you lost me with putting dyna-beads in your tire to correct a chain vibration and that's OK. Please read on and perhaps this will help?


Alignment - forks can be aligned, rear wheels can be aligned. Swing arms affect tracking, rake affects turn in, rear wheel alignment affects tracking. None of these really change ride quality but they do change how it feels going down the road. Does it track straight? Do you have a center stand you can do a quick string check as mentioned early?

Ride quality - this is the suspension settings. Sag front and rear, ride height, spring rates, tire pressure, compression damping, rebound damping, and steering head damping. These are settings that can be changed to tailor the bike to the riders needs. They effect how it feels over bumps, in the corners and over smooth and rough terrain.

Vibration - tires which are scalloped, flat spotted, out of round, not balanced or improperly balanced create vibrations. As does a poor tune, a misfiring engine, a chain too tight, a kinky chain, a bent wheel and bent rotor(s), etc. . . . You feel these things at speed. Maybe the engine vibe can be felt while parked. .. . Also - chains that are TOO TIGHT make lots of noise and vibration.


We fix tracking issues by correcting the alignment (you believe your bike has this issue). We fix the vibration you have by maintaining that chain or replacing it. Lastly we address the ride quality by adjusting the suspension to better suit your needs.
Does this make more sense now?

 

[FinalImpact]

Read this:
View attachment 45638 View attachment 45639

 

[04fizzer]

I'll probably post a youtube video link that might be able to help give some more details. Not sure if ill be able to do that soon yet, as I've been ridiculously busy with school, but the more I think about it and hear your guys opinions the more I'm leaning towards:

1) Rear wheel out of alignment - Could be, the dealership that installed my rear tire could have messed it up. I can check the alignment, but dont have a stand and really can't validate spending any more money at Harbor Freight for more tools

2) Chain - It's a possibility. It makes a lot of road noise, so that could mean that it is close to being replaced. I don't think the previous owner knew what chain lube or maintenance was. Anyone know how to check chain life, aside from looking at the swingarm notches (i would like to check with calipers, much more accurate).

Your chain will have ZERO effect on the handling. The rear wheel being out of alignment might. The chain noise COULD be a symptom of the rear wheel being out of alignment.

Quit throwing answers at problems that aren't there until you go through and check everything else. Aligning the rear wheel is FREE, why pay for something if you don't need to? You're wasting your time and money at that point.

 

[outasight20]

I'll add once again that if your handlebars are pointing straight ahead when you're cruising down the highway, your rear wheel IS in alignment. I've have my rear wheel slightly out of alignment and it did not affect handling that much, but the handlebars being off center WAS noticeable.