Starter cut off relay!

[TheRustySpork]

Hi everyone, I'm new to the site although have read loads of posts beforehand.

I was unlucky enough to have my bike on charge when a lighting strike hit the house circuit, causing it to blow the charger to peices !!

Anyway long story short, bike no longer will turn over at all. I think I have traced it down to the relay assy for the saftey start circuit.

Just wondering if anyone had had similar issue with their bike I.e problem with said relay?

Loving the forum

 

[FinalImpact]

WOW thats a tough one. To my knowledge the circuit itself is pretty bullet proof and don't recall in 3 years seeing a fault pinned to the device.

However, the Run Stop switch on the bars (has issues), kick stand switch (has some failures), Clutch switch (has failed on a couple) - in about that order. With an ohm meter these can be inspected.

Any one of them could lead to a NO start issue and the ECM expects the bike to be in Neutral if the kick stand is down.

How did you confirm the relay circuit is bad?

 

[TheRustySpork]

Thanks for the reply, I'm not sure if the run/stop switch is bad my thinking is that it is functional as the fuel pump will prime when the run switch is on, and when the run switch is off the pump will not prime.

At first when I pulled the clutch in it would blow the ignition fuse,

The neutral light will not come on at all except when the kill switch is off the neutral light will come on for around 5 sec regardless of gear.

I have checked volts at every switch you suggested and the get around 12 volts except the clutch witch gets about 3v?

Although since bridging all the circuits to test weather they work the ignition fuse will no longer fail.

I have tested the relay in accordance with the Haynes manual to check if the diodes inside are allowing current to pass either way. I have tested it several time and each time I get a slightly different result I put this down to the closeness of the pins on the relay make it difficult to check continuity, as I'm sure the probes of the multimeter touch sometimes giving false readings.

I do have another relay on order but Yamaha have back ordered it so it is taking its sweet time to arrive.

I was also wondering if there was a way to by pass this relay altogether ??

 

[FinalImpact]

All Good info....
So what does work properly?

As far as the switches go, it sounds like the run stop switch is in tact, but I would set meter to OHMS and with key off, confirm contacts open and close.

It sounds like you have a haynes manual. Does it have good schematic in it? If not, one can be had. I don't have a haynes manual but I will advise you grab an OEM FSM as it goes into pretty good detail about how to verify operation of each component.

The 3v at the switch and blowing fuses is not a good sign. Check out bonemens site. Its worth your time.

 

[TheRustySpork]

Well the only things that are working at the moment is the lights ie brake/tail side lights, indicators/hazards and the speedo works fine.

The Haynes has a fairly good wiring diagram which is full colour Ect.

I will check the resistance at the switches while I'm waiting for the relay from yamy.

I've been on bonemans site extensively before although haven't looked too much into his wiring bits. I will do though.

Thanks

 

[Motogiro]

The starter/cutout relay assembly incorporates 2 relays. Depending on whether the bike is in neutral or the side stand is down or the clutch is pulled in etc. form logic through diodes and input to the ECU that controls whether the bike will start or the engine will shut down. If your manual gives you resistive measurements to determine whether the unit is good, you can pretty much count on those readings to give you an idea on the health of the unit.
Sounds like you're on the right track.
A lightning strike can surely be damaging to one,more or all of the solid state components on the bike. When you get it started also check your charging voltage.
I would suggest possible bypassing so you can confirm this is where the problem is but because there could be multiple path damage on this device I think it would be safer to just swap the unit if it failed the service manual test.

I was going to get back earlier yesterday but we had server problems.
Let us know how you do.

 

[TheRustySpork]

Thanks for the reply,

I don't think I will bypass the relay as I agree there could/probably Is damage elsewhere although I have no error codes on the dash.

The replacement part should be in either tommrow or Wednesday so not a massively long wait now! Haven't had a proper chance to check the resistance of the switches yet.

I will test the charging circuit when it's running. What do you mean when you say solid state components?
Cheers

 

[Motogiro]

Thanks for the reply,

I don't think I will bypass the relay as I agree there could/probably Is damage elsewhere although I have no error codes on the dash.

The replacement part should be in either tommrow or Wednesday so not a massively long wait now! Haven't had a proper chance to check the resistance of the switches yet.

I will test the charging circuit when it's running. What do you mean when you say solid state components?
Cheers

Solid state is just a word that expresses the component is an active semi-conductor devices like a transistor or and integrated circuit (IC) diode etc. Semi conductors are very sensitive to over voltage conditions that are just a few volt over there rating for even a nano second as apposed to switched relays and the like that don't use active components. So basically a relay coil and it's contacts or your horn probably won't fail if 30,000volts jumps past at low current but a transistor or IC is non forgiving for even a split nano second. I'm hoping that the lighting path was just through one area and I bet the rest of the bike probably fine since your bike is priming etc.

Again, when you get it started look at your charging voltage..

 

[TheRustySpork]

Hi everyone,

finally got the bike sorted at long last!!

the relay came today and it worked a treat, started right up.
the only issue is the neutral light still does not come on, i think i have found the cause it looks like the switch has packed up as the plunger is very stiff and is stuck down. i have tried to free it up to no prevail.

I will have to order one can anyone recommend a place for UK buyers ?

although this is not too much of a problem because i can start the bike with the clutch in providing the stand is up.

i also checked the charging circuit, with engine running the voltage is around 14.7V and when the flashers/main beam is on it drops to about 14.5

thanks for all of your help

 

[FinalImpact]

Good Job!
FWIW: You might just carry a few spare fuses with you for a bit until you gain some confidence. Although, short of the cluster, RR, and ECM, it doesn't leave much else for active electronic components. Pretty much everything else is mechanical in nature.

Following up with some of Motogiro's input - the bad news about active semi-conductor type components (ECM, lock out realy, gauge cluster) is they can experience latent failures from damages earlier in life. In this case, compents like the ECM may work for a while but then out of the blue fail or fail when HOT or too Cold.

Its like a crack in your measruing cup. One day you fill it with hot water and the side breaks out making a mess! If I were you, keep your eyes peeled for a cheap ECM. The relationship of the lockout to the ECM is uhm - close!

Eitherway - enjoy riding and have fun!

 

[squid0g]

Any chance somebody has the part number/location for the starter circuit cutout relay? I have a code 19 thats still unsolved and suspect this relay as the problem but i cannot find any info on which relay it is. The relay on top of the battery is the starter relay. Right? Then there are 3 behind the rear left plastic panel with the bigger one (part number 5vk-81950-30) being what I suspected was the starter ciucuit cutout since you can hear it activating when the neutral switch activates. Also using the diag mode i can see that the sidestand switch never changes from off to on. But the sensor is working. I think. An ohm test at the plug comfirms continuity. When side stand is down i get nothing but up it gets a reading. So i figure i can rule out that? I figure the next part of that system before it gets to the ecu is the relay. Which supposedly needs the sidestand and neutral switch both active to then send an OK signal to ecu. Sadly replacing the relay did nothing. Im hoping one of u will call me dumb and tell me which relay is the starter circuit cutout or maybe point me in the right direction

 

[Motogiro]

I think it's under the left pod below the seat. It will have a 16 pin connector. #23 on this parts fiche.
Relay Assy (5Vk-30)

 

[squid0g]

I think it's under the left pod below the seat. It will have a 16 pin connector. #23 on this parts fiche.
Relay Assy (5Vk-30)

Yes thats the one i replaced. Actually after a bit more forum research after posting this i was compelled to inspect the wires on the ignition cylinder,which was already suspect since somebody tried to steal it a couple years ago. Or maybe just sabatoge for parking in their spot? They cut the wires far enough away from the cylinder that it was easy to just solder them together. All has been good since then. Then code 19. The first thing i did was check these to see if they were shorting under my electrical tape sleeve. Seemed ok. That was a week ago. Today after failing with the new relay and more forum research i went back to the ignition wires. This time i pulled on them to see how well each one was connected to the ignition. Sure enough the small blue one pulled right out. Seems to be a tiny wire and probably a point of weakness in these ignitions. Which might be why an ignition replacement seems a common fix for code 19. So i will get the 30$ ebay replacement (ign cylinder, keys, gas tank cap, seat latch for 30$???? How??) and will update if it fixes code 19. Also is it possible to just take these apart and resolder the one wire? I got the old ign cylinder out but it uses safety break off bolts to get it apart. A bit of a chore. Wondering if its even worth trying

 

[Motogiro]

fz6 Yet another code 19 (solved)

Okay so yet another code 19 thread. Bike has worked fine for last 2 years with little maintenance admittedly other than oil, chain, tire pressure. Anyways i got code 19 where i get crank but no start. Flashing cel light when cranking. Static cel when key is on. Have read many things. Corroded...

600riders.com

 

[squid0g]

fz6 Yet another code 19 (solved)

Okay so yet another code 19 thread. Bike has worked fine for last 2 years with little maintenance admittedly other than oil, chain, tire pressure. Anyways i got code 19 where i get crank but no start. Flashing cel light when cranking. Static cel when key is on. Have read many things. Corroded...

600riders.com

Yesss this link shows what my solution was to code 19