Riding the Darkside?

[greg]

i've heard of guys doing it on bikes with big rear wheels (like rocket 3's), as the tyres are pretty wide normally, and also expensive

just got some new tyres fitted to my fz6, the old ones were fairly square, going to the new ones the handling seems like it's been transformed, it doesn't need to be forced into a corner, it wanta to turn

 

[mrphotoman]

Attitudes posted on this subject are why I very rarely post anything here. If an idea doesn't fit neatly into your little world of riding, then it's stupid or retarded. You guys love to complain about how close-minded the cruiser crowd is when you're just as close-minded. I ride in two different worlds of street motorcycling and love both of them as well as riding dirt bikes. I hate to think I would ever shut out a segment of riding simply because I had my head stuck up my backside.

How "close-minded" you are for making such a statement about this forum and making assumptions on all the members here for the few responses in this thread.


As for "riding the darkside" it is silly and dangerous, there is a reason the car tires are not rated for use on a motorcycle.

People can post ""hey i know this guy that knows this guy that can out ride any guy on a sport bike with his "darkside cruiser" in any curve blindfolded with one hand tied behind his back"" But reality dictates that a square, heavy car tire manufactured for a vehicle with 4 wheels will not handle safely on a vehicle with 2 wheels. I guess you may be able to get by with it if you live in a flat area and drive 15 mph in the city but you are only asking for trouble with this setup.

Heck people drink and drive and swear up and down they are better drivers when drunk, people ride motorcycles without gear/helmets and do wheelies and "stunts" in traffic on the interstate and swear they will never wreck, people take illegal drugs and say it is safe and so on and so on but that does not make it okay or safe.

 

[champion221elite]

I know a few guys who are running car tires on their cruiser style bikes. They do lots of interstate riding and it was chewing up standard motorcycle tires very quickly.

They have been doing it for a couple years without any problems but they also understand the limitations of running a car tire on a motorcycle. While it works on a cruiser which seldom gets put into any significant lean angles, it would never work on a sportbike.

Even if a radial car tire becomes somewhat round at speed, it still has an abrupt transition from the tread section to the sidewall without any "shoulder" area to aid in cornering.

I'll stick with sport/touring tires such as the BT-021 and enjoy longer tire change intervals while still having plenty of traction in the curves.

 

[mrphotoman]

I think it is crippling the bike.

It reminds me of the guys that have sports cars and try to run summer only tires in the winter and crash and then post up on the internet wondering why their car handles so bad in the snow lol. Or the guys that run their snow tires in the summer and complain what a POS their sporty car is and how bad it handles. Or the guys that cut the mufflers off their trucks and think it transforms them into a race car.

Why cripple your bike because you ride a lot of miles. If you do not like changing your bike tires and all you are worried about is how many miles you get out of a set of tires then drive a car.

 

[The Dude]

I think it is crippling the bike.

It reminds me of the guys that have sports cars and try to run summer only tires in the winter and crash and then post up on the internet wondering why their car handles so bad in the snow lol. Or the guys that run their snow tires in the summer and complain what a POS their sporty car is and how bad it handles. Or the guys that cut the mufflers off their trucks and think it transforms them into a race car.

Why cripple your bike because you ride a lot of miles. If you do not like changing your bike tires and all you are worried about is how many miles you get out of a set of tires then drive a car.

Why worry about what other people do to make their bikes preform best for their needs?

Putting a car tire on the back of a heavy touring bike hardly "cripples" it. You're trading some extra effort in initial steering input for dramatically longer tire life. If you really think it's crazy, do some research. You're suffering from a fear of the unknown.

Here are a couple threads about FJRs running on the dark side:
Darkside FJR #3 - GL1800Riders
Fell to the Dark Side!!!! (Car tire on the rear) - GTP Forums

And here's a "crippled" FJR on a twisty road:​

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMd_PRso6Tg]Darkside FJR1300[/ame]

 

[mrphotoman]

Why worry about what other people do to make their bikes preform best for their needs?

Putting a car tire on the back of a heavy touring bike hardly "cripples" it. You're trading some extra effort in initial steering input for dramatically longer tire life. If you really think it's crazy, do some research. You're suffering from a fear of the unknown.

Here are a couple threads about FJRs running on the dark side:
Darkside FJR #3 - GL1800Riders
Fell to the Dark Side!!!! (Car tire on the rear) - GTP Forums

And here's a "crippled" FJR on a twisty road:​

Darkside FJR1300

I am not worried in the least but this is a discussion forum and I stated my opinion on the subject just as you did. Why are you so concerned regarding my opinion on the matter lol? As for crippling the bike, you can not tell me it does not negatively affect handling, you can clearly see in the OP the contact patch greatly reduced as he slightly leans the bike lol. I can only imagine going around a corner with a square tire on the bike. I bet it handles great :rof:

 

[The Dude]

I am not worried in the least but this is a discussion forum and I stated my opinion on the subject just as you did. Why are you so concerned regarding my opinion on the matter lol? As for crippling the bike, you can not tell me it does not negatively affect handling, you can clearly see in the OP the contact patch greatly reduced as he slightly leans the bike lol. I can only imagine going around a corner with a square tire on the bike. I bet it handles great :rof:

I'm sure you can imagine. My point is, it's not what you would imagine. Believe what ever you want. Beliefs and imaginations do not have to be tied to any facts or reality. You're free to express your opinion. My response was that your opinion is not based in any factual knowledge of riding a large bike with a car tire on the rear. That's why I supplied the links with relevant data from ACTUAL RIDERS with ACTUAL EXPERIENCE that conflicts with your imagination. I do not mean to single you out in any way, as many others imagine the same thing. Using a car tire on a motorcycle is counterintuitive. But if you do some research, you'll see it actually works very well for riders who need longer tire life on heavy bikes.

 

[mrphotoman]

I'm sure you can imagine. My point is, it's not what you would imagine. Believe what ever you want. Beliefs and imaginations do not have to be tied to any facts or reality. You're free to express your opinion. My response was that your opinion is not based in any factual knowledge of riding a large bike with a car tire on the rear. That's why I supplied the links with relevant data from ACTUAL RIDERS with ACTUAL EXPERIENCE that conflicts with your imagination. I do not mean to single you out in any way, as many others imagine the same thing. Using a car tire on a motorcycle is counterintuitive. But if you do some research, you'll see it actually works very well for riders who need longer tire life on heavy bikes.

Lol, sorry if you think it is my imagination. Many people swear that doing meth makes them smarter but that does not make it true. Just like running a huge square car tire on a bike is not a good idea but some think that it is. I am glad some people think it works great but I sure would not do it. Just like I would not run summer only performance tires in the snow or use gas to put out a fire.

Hey it is your life and your bike, do what you want.

 

[The Dude]

Lol, sorry if you think it is my imagination. Many people swear that doing meth makes them smarter but that does not make it true. Just like running a huge square car tire on a bike is not a good idea but some think that it is. I am glad some people think it works great but I sure would not do it. Just like I would not run summer only performance tires in the snow or use gas to put out a fire.

Hey it is your life and your bike, do what you want.

I didn't *think* it was your imagination. You said:

I can only imagine going around a corner with a square tire on the bike. I bet it handles great :rof:

You've stated your opinion of what you imagine it would be like. Many riders who have gone to the dark side have stated their opinions based on tens of thousands of miles of riding. That actual experience, along with the number of LOLs in your posts, gives me the impression they're more reliable sources of information on this subject.

As for my life and my bike, I stated that I do not ride with a car tire and I would not recommend anyone else doing so with an FZ6. But that doesn't mean people who choose to do so on other bikes are the equivalent of meth heads.

 

[ChevyFazer]

How "close-minded" you are for making such a statement about this forum and making assumptions on all the members here for the few responses in this thread.


As for "riding the darkside" it is silly and dangerous, there is a reason the car tires are not rated for use on a motorcycle.

People can post ""hey i know this guy that knows this guy that can out ride any guy on a sport bike with his "darkside cruiser" in any curve blindfolded with one hand tied behind his back"" But reality dictates that a square, heavy car tire manufactured for a vehicle with 4 wheels will not handle safely on a vehicle with 2 wheels. I guess you may be able to get by with it if you live in a flat area and drive 15 mph in the city but you are only asking for trouble with this setup.

Heck people drink and drive and swear up and down they are better drivers when drunk, people ride motorcycles without gear/helmets and do wheelies and "stunts" in traffic on the interstate and swear they will never wreck, people take illegal drugs and say it is safe and so on and so on but that does not make it okay or safe.

yes car tires are fairly square but for the same size tire there is hardly any weight differece and the sidwall on a car tire allows flexing unlike a moto tire and when you go around a corner its not like the tire remains a square it flexes and you have very little differece in contact patch yes it can be done safely, and there is nothing wrong with it. you would notice a bigger change in handling from switching from a 150lb rider to a 225lb rider on a big bike, its not like they are putting load range e tires on the bikes for the most part they are good semi preformance tires

 

[dxh24]

I think the issue here is you've posted a cruiser idea on a sportbike forum... therefore the concept of putting a square tire for more mileage in place of some performance, doesn't make alot of sense to some, as most people with an fz6 more than likely like the twisties. I can see why people have done it if you're putting 20k+ miles a year on... that's 2 or 3 sets of tires a season $$. It's all about opinion here... and where people have different opinions, there will be arguments.

Here's what i say, if theres a guy on a Meanstreak with a car tire on it and he's happy as can be about it, cool. And if you're riding your FZ6 with your PR 3's on it and your happy as can be, cool. Why argue about whose opinion is right or whether or not somebody's idea is stupid or not? Enjoy your bike!!!

 

[mrphotoman]

yes car tires are fairly square but for the same size tire there is hardly any weight differece and the sidwall on a car tire allows flexing unlike a moto tire and when you go around a corner its not like the tire remains a square it flexes and you have very little differece in contact patch yes it can be done safely, and there is nothing wrong with it. you would notice a bigger change in handling from switching from a 150lb rider to a 225lb rider on a big bike, its not like they are putting load range e tires on the bikes for the most part they are good semi preformance tires

lol i do not recall ever having any car tires on my cars that flex, maybe if it was defective and had 5lbs of air in them maybe. As for them flexing on a bike that weighs significantly less, lol yeah right.

Mounting Car Tires on Motorcycles - Motorcycle Cruiser Magazine


Well i am off to go put butter on my handlebars and feta cheese in my pockets. I heard from a friend that knows a guy that read somewhere if you put butter on your handlebars and fill your pockets with feta cheese that you do not need tires on your bike at all. the cheese and butter have a reaction that allows your bike to hover in the air and that it works great. I just posted proof here that it works so everyone should do it.

Here is your proof: "Dr. Mike states: Hay guyz it workz off da hook yo@"

It is now a fact, point proven,feta cheese and butter is the new cartire for bikes.

 

[Wolfman]

lol! NOT EVER! you gotta be kidding! Just goes against every reason why i ride a bike!

Nutjobs only i say!

 

[Def]

Car tires installed on a big cruiser seems fairly common on cruiser forums (rear tire only!!). I've followed a forum on the Honda Valkyrie and several owners have tried it with great results. They are pulling up to 40000 miles out of the rear tire, and it doesn't seem to affect handling much at all...once you get used to it. The tire has to be fairly soft, also. I wouldn't try it personally on my FZ6 because the bike is too light (IMHO). I'd prefer to ride my FZ6 more like a sport bike as opposed to a cruiser.

 

[mrphotoman]

yes car tires are fairly square but for the same size tire there is hardly any weight differece and the sidwall on a car tire allows flexing unlike a moto tire and when you go around a corner its not like the tire remains a square it flexes and you have very little differece in contact patch yes it can be done safely, and there is nothing wrong with it. you would notice a bigger change in handling from switching from a 150lb rider to a 225lb rider on a big bike, its not like they are putting load range e tires on the bikes for the most part they are good semi preformance tires

That is strange, the tires on my cars do not flex excessively when I go around a corner (of course there is minimal flex, they are not rocks), if they did the car would be wobbling all over the place. Heck if the tires on my car flexed like that when I take it to the track (road course not drag strip) I would be walking home. Even my daily driver economy car tires do not wobble and flex all over the place when driving. That is strange, all this time I thought tire companies were trying to make tires that minimize the amount of sidewall flex (except for off road tires). Who knew they were secretly making car tires that wobble and flex so people could use them on bikes. That is fantastic, I am going to order a set for my bikes So these car tires being used on bikes actually flex so much they mold to the road allowing safe riding? I wonder why the car tire companies are not taking advantage of this new niche market and making billions in new sales? Maybe the tire designers and engineers are not as knowledgeable as the darkside riders and the motorcycle tire companies have been wrong all these year making those silly "non-square" tires.

The tire will not flex so much that your contact patch is going to stay the same going around a corner on a bike, there is not enough weight there and it is going to be dangerous and poor performing. I bought my bike to ride and it is dangerous enough without crippling the bike and cutting corners to try and save a few dollars by installing car parts on it. I think I will continue to use the proper parts on the bike and enjoy it rather than to do something that could cost someone their life.


From cycle world:

"They are much more than no big deal, clearly not a good idea but far short of sure death. Here is the irrefutable truth, espoused by every motorcycle designer, tire technician and worthwhile engineer who ever killed a single brain cell thinking about such matters: A motorcycle will not and can not possibly have the same degree of agility, stability and maneuverability with a car tire at either end as it can with a motorcycle tire. I know, some people swear by car tires, heralding their significantly longer-wearing capabilities, but there is not one scintilla of hard evidence that supports the contention that the use of car tires on motorcycles results in no loss of safety or control. Anyone who thinks that tilting a motorcycle up on the sharp, narrow outer edge of a flat-profile automobile tire when cornering is a good idea is either poorly informed or downright delusional."

Great post: Years upon years of some of the smartest engineers in the world goes toward designing and building appropriate tires for appropriate vehicles. Sure engineers can be wrong, but they seem to agree (obviously from every bike manufacturer int he world) that bike tires are shaped and built the way they are for a reason.

I think I'll trust the years of engineering over some ************* in a garage thank you very much. There's nothing here for mythbusters to test.

Under inflated tires ruin and can pop unexpectedly, which, but the sounds of it, these guys need to do. I've a feeling it has to do with the manufacturing process and the fact that the thin walls of the tires are getting more stress than they typically should ..................On top of that, your handling went to the ****ter the second you threw that tire on. And I dont believe for a second that the harder, more gapped tire of a car has more traction than that of a bike tire. ............................

You can clearly see the tire is not flexing and the underinflated sidewall bulging:

If I am coming off harsh I do not mean to ( i edited the original post, it sounded like I was being a little too sarcastic), I am just giving you a little "good natured ribbing" but I do not belive for a second it is a good idea to put car tires on a motorcycle. It only takes 1 evasive manuver or emergency stop or going around one corner a little faster than the car tire can handle to greatly increase your odds of being hurt.

 

[ChevyFazer]

That is strange, the tires on my cars do not flex excessively when I go around a corner (of course there is minimal flex, they are not rocks), if they did the car would be wobbling all over the place. Heck if the tires on my car flexed like that when I take it to the track (road course not drag strip) I would be walking home. Even my daily driver economy car tires do not wobble and flex all over the place when driving. That is strange, all this time I thought tire companies were trying to make tires that minimize the amount of sidewall flex (except for off road tires). Who knew they were secretly making car tires that wobble and flex so people could use them on bikes. That is fantastic, I am going to order a set for my bikes So these car tires being used on bikes actually flex so much they mold to the road allowing safe riding? I wonder why the car tire companies are not taking advantage of this new niche market and making billions in new sales? Maybe the tire designers and engineers are not as knowledgeable as the darkside riders and the motorcycle tire companies have been wrong all these year making those silly "non-square" tires.

The tire will not flex so much that your contact patch is going to stay the same going around a corner on a bike, there is not enough weight there and it is going to be dangerous and poor performing. I bought my bike to ride and it is dangerous enough without crippling the bike and cutting corners to try and save a few dollars by installing car parts on it. I think I will continue to use the proper parts on the bike and enjoy it rather than to do something that could cost someone their life.


From cycle world:

"They are much more than no big deal, clearly not a good idea but far short of sure death. Here is the irrefutable truth, espoused by every motorcycle designer, tire technician and worthwhile engineer who ever killed a single brain cell thinking about such matters: A motorcycle will not and can not possibly have the same degree of agility, stability and maneuverability with a car tire at either end as it can with a motorcycle tire. I know, some people swear by car tires, heralding their significantly longer-wearing capabilities, but there is not one scintilla of hard evidence that supports the contention that the use of car tires on motorcycles results in no loss of safety or control. Anyone who thinks that tilting a motorcycle up on the sharp, narrow outer edge of a flat-profile automobile tire when cornering is a good idea is either poorly informed or downright delusional."

Great post: Years upon years of some of the smartest engineers in the world goes toward designing and building appropriate tires for appropriate vehicles. Sure engineers can be wrong, but they seem to agree (obviously from every bike manufacturer int he world) that bike tires are shaped and built the way they are for a reason.

I think I'll trust the years of engineering over some ************* in a garage thank you very much. There's nothing here for mythbusters to test.

Under inflated tires ruin and can pop unexpectedly, which, but the sounds of it, these guys need to do. I've a feeling it has to do with the manufacturing process and the fact that the thin walls of the tires are getting more stress than they typically should ..................On top of that, your handling went to the ****ter the second you threw that tire on. And I dont believe for a second that the harder, more gapped tire of a car has more traction than that of a bike tire. ............................

You can clearly see the tire is not flexing and the underinflated sidewall bulging:

If I am coming off harsh I do not mean to ( i edited the original post, it sounded like I was being a little too sarcastic), I am just giving you a little "good natured ribbing" but I do not belive for a second it is a good idea to put car tires on a motorcycle. It only takes 1 evasive manuver or emergency stop or going around one corner a little faster than the car tire can handle to greatly increase your odds of being hurt.

put a gopro on your front door looking at your tires and you will even see your rubber bands flexing thats part of how they work or else it would be like putting a fork lift tire on your car and as for that pic...sure dose look like its working safely to me and flexing at the same time he must have put butter on his handle bars and feta cheese in his pockets though but would i ever think for one minute about putting one on a sport bike....heck no, can it be done safely on larger bikes yes....that is all

 

[Grainbelt]

I'd consider it on a sidecar rig. That is the only conceivable time it makes any sense to me.

 

[MrMogensen]

I'd consider it on a sidecar rig. That is the only conceivable time it makes any sense to me.

Sounds like a Trike thing to me

Actually this is the first time I have ever heard of this dark side riding. When I saw the thread I thought it had something to do with 200mph through town on front or rear wheel.

My opinion… On a big heavy cruiser/tourer this could actually be a solution if you are the type of guy/girl who just loves eating straight miles. It has to handle a little worse but heck most of the cruiser people are too busy with coffee’n cruise control so they wouldn’t notice (juts kidding).
As far as I understand a modern motorcycle tire has more or less the same amount of friction no matter if you are up straight or 55 degrees down. Some years back it was about 45 degrees and the MotoGP guys had to hang out more than they do today => improved tired running on the same old tracks. Correct me if I am wrong but that what I’ve been told. A car tire is not designed for those angles… well you do the math!
On a big heavy cruiser/tourer with 300lbs of backpack/wifey ;-) on top of the rear wheel it does make a little sense. It would never lean more than a few degrees anyways.

Some people just want to save some money (with a longer lasting car tire). It can’t be that different from tons of people who save money riding with regular boots, regular jeans, no gloves and so on…
I try not to save money when it comes to safety (top notch tires, helmet, boots, gloves, back-protector), but still I am riding with textile because it’s cheaper…

Well just me spitting out some pros and cons.

 

[Nelly]

No really, it is. A car tire isn't designed for a motorcycle, the forces and dynamics that a bike places on a tire a completely different that what a bike places on a tire. I can understand wanting a long lasting tire but to put the wrong tire on, thinking it is a good and safe solution is fooling yourself.

In the UK before I left, there was some talk about insurance companies voiding claims if the OME / recommended tyre were not fitted to a machine. This may have had something to do with people stuffing 190's on smaller rims? In some cases tyre manufactures develop specific rubber for the machine. Hayabusa springs to mind.

Nelly

Found this on the GL1800 site. It doesn't get to the bottom of the alleged car tyre shod bike accident.
Its only two pages. It made me smile as they arguments and comments kind of mirror some of the debates we have had on this forum.
http://gl1800riders.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260409

 

[tupac]

posting to an old thread but it something that i think i can add to the forum

Ive riden darkside before

had a 2005 honda silverwing 600cc automatic scooter. the rear tire was swapped out for a sumitomo car tire.

it was great!!!!

1-Amazing grip both wet and dry (riding in the pouring rain or offroad was awesome)
2-made my rear brake at least 3 times more powerful (my bike had combined brakes. You squeeze the rear and the front brakes too)
3- make it a smoother ride, i could eat huge pothole in tijuana mexico and not feel them as much
4- balance, bike would ride more planted going straight
5- raw display of power. gives you MUCH greater footprint to lay down your horsepower, it hooks up better when accelerating.
6- traction while turning, the tire has deep grooves on the corners for water to escape but these help grip the road better than a motorcycle tire WHEN there is debris on the road. (mc tires tend to be more like a racing slick)
7-price? usually cheaper than mc tire because they last longer.

people freak out when they see it was a car tire but the "corners" or the tire flex with the road to give you crazy traction even when turning. my bike weighed 550lbs wet. it felt even better with a passenger!


my rear tire lasted more than 20,000miles

with in those 20000 miles i did 3 nasty burnouts that removed alot of rubber from the tire. even at the 20000 mile mark i would estimate it have another 5000miles left. Other folks on the silverwing forum have claimed 40,000 miles and i seriously dont doubt it. I would drive my scooter very agressively. WOT at green lights, burnouts, canyon carving.

Im looking into getting a darkside tire for my bike now.

Sumitomo HTR T4 165/70R-13 (has a 500+ rating for life which is crazy high)


i just figured i post this info here because i can speak from experience.
those pictures ive attached are my scooter. I had to retire it after a stupid lady ran a red light.

I loved that scooter! even though i have a motorcycle, scooters will always be my first love