No shirt, check no helmet, check, shorts check...

[champion221elite]

I just talked to a buddy who is pushing for Michigan to repeal it's mandatory helmet law.

He says, "If I crash my motorcycle, I'd rather die".

 

[SirIsaac]

A helmet is mandatory for riders that have their "temporary" license. Also, after you obtain your endorsement, you have to wear a helmet for one year. After that... "Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death". (or maybe both if you decide to not wear the gear... :sadface: )

The MSF course is optional in the state of Ohio.

Helmets are also mandatory for riders under 18 years old. The MSF course is optional, but if you take it and pass, you do not have to take the rider skill test at the license testing station. Many, many riders fail that skill test, but the MSF instructors really want you to pass so they do all they can to help you pass the MSF test.

As far as justifying helmet laws based on insurance, I agree that insurance rates might be lower if helmets were universally required. Based on that logic, insurance would cost less if: full gear was mandatory; motorcycles were limited to 20 HP, 70 mph maximum capablity; motorcycles were banned altogether (they serve no practical purpose that could not be met by other safer vehicles), etc., etc., etc. I would have no probelm charging riders who fail to wear helmets higher rates, just as smokers pay higher health and life insurance rates.

 

[Ron P]

I was informed by my boss that it's just us gearing up because we don't know how to ride. Let me explain a little better........While putting on my gear, esp. the pants, my boss laughs and puts this big grin on, I ask him why he's laughing and he explained it to me. His $12 helmet+$1 DOT sticker is better than my CF full face helmet because it's "cooler" and I think he means that in more than one way. I said I gear up because I don't want to end up in ER getting road rash scrubbed clean, his response.......Harley riders don't crash. Can't really argue with that logic huh?

Tell that one to the deputy director of my office. A pickup pulled out of ashopping center lot in front of him. He wound up T-boning the truck, totalling his Harley Road Glide, breaking a collarbone and cracking some ribs.

Your boss is an idiot.

 

[kevlarfz6]

I just talked to a buddy who is pushing for Michigan to repeal it's mandatory helmet law.

He says, "If I crash my motorcycle, I'd rather die".

No offense, but your buddy is an idiot.

So if he lowsides in a corner and tumbles some, cracking his head on a rock or something, he'd rather die (no helmet) then get up and walk away (helmet) with only a few minor cosmetic items to fix???

 

[hughes8049]

Helmet laws, and other compulsory "safety" laws, are not the answer. Peresonally, I am glad my state got rid of it's stupid helmet laws. I never ride a motorcycle, or even a bicycle, without a helmet....EVER, but I don't care if other people do. You should be free to do whith yourself whatever you want. Do you not believe that you own your own body? Should smoking cigarettes be illegal as well, or eating cheeseburgers? I am a firefighter and I see the result of people's stupidity everyday, but that doesn't mean they don't have the right to do whatever they want as long as they aren't putting other people in danger. Is it collasally stupid to ride without a helmet? YES. Should it be illegal? NO. As far as insurance companies go....they could simply require that you wear a helmet in order for your policy to be effective if they were that concerned about it. Or, they could just charge you more if you ride without one. Then, you could decide between having insurance and going without a helmet. Apparently, they aren't concerned with it an neither am I. Do what you want to yourself. The only thing I disagree with is the tax payers footing the bill when they injure themselves, but that's a whole different issue. Just look at it this way...do you really want the government deciding what is healthy, safe, or whatever for you? Or, do you believe that you can make those decisions for yourself?

 

[FZ6_WVU]

What I don't understand is why others care if someone rides without a helmet??
I have seen people call other people "idiots" and "stupid" and be rude, just because they wear a helmet and someone else doesn’t. Why do they care? I can see them getting their panties in a bunch if the law said you couldn't wear a helmet, but to get pissy because some people like the freedom of having that option.
I live in WV and my state tells me I have to wear a helmet, but I would much prefer they minded their own business, and let me as an adult make that choice. To me, a helmet law is a “busy body”, majority rules law, that gives the many the right to tell the few what to do. What is really funny to me, are folks that have never rode a bike before weighing in on why I should wear a helmet.

Like Granny told me once, “To each their own I say and if it doesn’t affect you, shut your damn pie hole boy!!”

Just my two cents…

Now, dressing in full leathers to ride around town on a 100 degree day.. Now that is some I really could make fun of!! :Flip:

 

[LERecords]

i had my father (who rides a harley) and GRANDMA both tell me that i was crazy for spending the money i did on all my gear.. i just laugh and tell them that i would have spent double or triple if i could have.. to each his/her own, and i would rather just wear the gear.. putting on gear is like putting on a seatbelt in the cage, i dont go anywhere without it..

 

[mrphotoman]

I agree. You are more likely to be fatally injured without gear. How much does your insurance pay out if you die, and total your bike? Last time I checked, that finite number was smaller than the individual medical coverage max number.

How much does it pay, if you total the bike, live and max out your medical benefits? Between immediate care at the time of the accident, and therapy afterwards...... which number do you think is greater?

I'm not claiming it's a conspiracy. It's more than likely just a convenient fact.

Any corporation that is publicly held (as in has stock holders) is almost certainly not interested in the welfare of it's clients, before the welfare of it's bottom line.

Look at states that have repealed their helmet laws. The fatality stats go up, every time. It's a sure bet the number of accidents stays very nearly uniform, before and after. More fatalities mean less lengthy hospital stays @ > $1K/day, followed by PT, etc, etc.

Just food for thought.

I work for one of the biggest corporations in the world and they do not hope any of us die off to save money lol.


also, i do care if others who do not wear any gear and get into accidents and have no medical insurance and/or motorcycle insurance and run up bills and do not pay them and so on. That is one of the reasons we have high taxes. as for those that think helmet laws are silly, do you think insurance is silly too? what about other laws, are they silly? should people be allowed to run around killing who ever they please and the government should mind their own business? Yes that is an extreme example but no more extreme/silly than some of the others I read in this thread lol:

Helmets are also mandatory for riders under 18 years old. The MSF course is optional, but if you take it and pass, you do not have to take the rider skill test at the license testing station. Many, many riders fail that skill test, but the MSF instructors really want you to pass so they do all they can to help you pass the MSF test.

As far as justifying helmet laws based on insurance, I agree that insurance rates might be lower if helmets were universally required. Based on that logic, insurance would cost less if: full gear was mandatory; motorcycles were limited to 20 HP, 70 mph maximum capablity; motorcycles were banned altogether (they serve no practical purpose that could not be met by other safer vehicles), etc., etc., etc. I would have no probelm charging riders who fail to wear helmets higher rates, just as smokers pay higher health and life insurance rates.

met laws, and other compulsory "safety" laws, are not the answer. Peresonally, I am glad my state got rid of it's stupid helmet laws. I never ride a motorcycle, or even a bicycle, without a helmet....EVER, but I don't care if other people do. You should be free to do whith yourself whatever you want. Do you not believe that you own your own body? Should smoking cigarettes be illegal as well, or eating cheeseburgers? I am a firefighter and I see the result of people's stupidity everyday, but that doesn't mean they don't have the right to do whatever they want as long as they aren't putting other people in danger. Is it collasally stupid to ride without a helmet? YES. Should it be illegal? NO. As far as insurance companies go....they could simply require that you wear a helmet in order for your policy to be effective if they were that concerned about it. Or, they could just charge you more if you ride without one. Then, you could decide between having insurance and going without a helmet. Apparently, they aren't concerned with it an neither am I. Do what you want to yourself. The only thing I disagree with is the tax payers footing the bill when they injure themselves, but that's a whole different issue. Just look at it this way...do you really want the government deciding what is healthy, safe, or whatever for you? Or, do you believe that you can make those decisions for yourself?

 

[hughes8049]

as for those that think helmet laws are silly, do you think insurance is silly too? what about other laws, are they silly? should people be allowed to run around killing who ever they please and the government should mind their own business? Yes that is an extreme example but no more extreme/silly than some of the others I read in this thread lol:

Where I live insurance is optional for bikes and all you have to have for a car is liability to cover other people you may injure. There is a difference between a law that tells you what is best for YOU and one that protects others FROM YOU. Not wearing a helmet is not going to cause anyone harm, but the person doing it. Driving drunk or "killing who ever they please" causes harm to innocent people that did not consent to the peril their lives are being placed in. It is not a big jump from telling you you MUST wear a helmet to telling you that you can't eat sugar or fatty foods, so I don't think those examples are silly. If you had told the people who founded this country (for those that live in the US) that someday there would be laws telling you how to live every moment of your life they would have thought you were crazy. In San Fransisco there are laws telling you how much water may be kept in your dog bowl....and this is not some out dated law from a hundred years ago, it is recent. I wouldn't ride my bike with no helmet for any reason that I can think of, but that should be my decision, not the decision of some ******* in a suit somewhere.

 

[mrphotoman]

i think helmet laws should be in every state, it is crazy not to wear one. when people have accidents with no gear, they typically will have much more severe injuries which results in high medical bills (which a lot of people will not pay) which means higher insurance costs because of this overhead, it results in higher auto insurance, causes families unnecessary grief due to a loss of a loved one, it hurts the economy and it is not exactly something pretty to look at when someone wrecks without any gear.

it does not harm anyone to have a helmet law but it certainly harms people not to have one.

 

[champion221elite]

No offense, but your buddy is an idiot.

So if he lowsides in a corner and tumbles some, cracking his head on a rock or something, he'd rather die (no helmet) then get up and walk away (helmet) with only a few minor cosmetic items to fix???

No offense taken, I think he's an idiot as well!

 

[hughes8049]

it does not harm anyone to have a helmet law but it certainly harms people not to have one.

Using that logic: hundreds of thousands of people die every year as a direct result of their diet. It doesn't hurt anyone not to have a state mandated diet, so should the government decide our meals for us? It would prevent hundreds of thousands of deaths every year and nobody would be hurt. Watching too much TV instead of exercising is also very bad for you, so we should have state mandated exercise every day. Do you see how quickly we slide into an Orwellian society when we let the government tell us what we have to do to protect ourselves? Do you not believe yourself to be smart enough to make decisions for your own safety. As far as unpaid medical bills go I agree, but I think people who pull that BS should have a portion of their wages garnished, and they should have a license to drive to work until they pay off their debt.

 

[SirIsaac]

i think helmet laws should be in every state, it is crazy not to wear one. when people have accidents with no gear, they typically will have much more severe injuries which results in high medical bills (which a lot of people will not pay) which means higher insurance costs because of this overhead, it results in higher auto insurance, causes families unnecessary grief due to a loss of a loved one, it hurts the economy and it is not exactly something pretty to look at when someone wrecks without any gear.

it does not harm anyone to have a helmet law but it certainly harms people not to have one.

Okay, you are entitled to your opinion, but, explain to me how the following could not be reasonably held by someone else:

I think motorcycles should be banned in every state, it is crazy to ride one. when people have accidents on a motorcycle, they typically will have much more severe injuries which results in high medical bills (which a lot of people will not pay) which means higher insurance costs because of this overhead, it results in higher auto insurance, causes families unnecessary grief due to a loss of a loved one, it hurts the economy and it is not exactly something pretty to look at when someone wrecks their motorcycle.

it does not harm anyone to not ride a motorcycle but it certainly harms people if they are legal.

If you are willing to allow the government to dictate behavior because of higher insurance, cost to society or whatever, don't be surprised or complain when someone in power decides you don't need to do something you like to do.

 

[hughes8049]

+1 SirIsaac, well said

 

[Capo79]

Helmet laws, and other compulsory "safety" laws, are not the answer. Peresonally, I am glad my state got rid of it's stupid helmet laws. I never ride a motorcycle, or even a bicycle, without a helmet....EVER, but I don't care if other people do. You should be free to do whith yourself whatever you want. Do you not believe that you own your own body? Should smoking cigarettes be illegal as well, or eating cheeseburgers? I am a firefighter and I see the result of people's stupidity everyday, but that doesn't mean they don't have the right to do whatever they want as long as they aren't putting other people in danger. Is it collasally stupid to ride without a helmet? YES. Should it be illegal? NO. As far as insurance companies go....they could simply require that you wear a helmet in order for your policy to be effective if they were that concerned about it. Or, they could just charge you more if you ride without one. Then, you could decide between having insurance and going without a helmet. Apparently, they aren't concerned with it an neither am I. Do what you want to yourself. The only thing I disagree with is the tax payers footing the bill when they injure themselves, but that's a whole different issue. Just look at it this way...do you really want the government deciding what is healthy, safe, or whatever for you? Or, do you believe that you can make those decisions for yourself?

Dude, the assumptions you're making are so wrong. You say that it's people's life. Sure, it is. But the consequences from the mistakes people do, don't just affect them personally. It has implications for the whole society, in terms of cost.

The analogy is a basejumper hitting the rock side way up a cliff, a cliff that is known for extreme conditions and therefore it's not recommended to jump from it. If the accident is survivable, that person probably needs a heli rescue, right? Now, that time and effort it takes for the helicopter to rescue that person could be spent on something else less stupid. Agree? Therefore, in this example the jumper should at least cover the expenses for the rescue operation. Even so, precious time was "wasted" if you get what I mean.

Smoking should actually be banned for the same reasons. It costs the society -not only money, but also time and other resources- a lot each year. Especially is that something you should seriously consider now when the health care reforms are coming into place. Or, there should be an immense increase in tobacco taxes. That justifies it to some extent.

Point is: There are so many idiots on this planet, and without regulations that retain all the stupidity, things tend to be more expensive than they need to be. For you as a public servant, this should be of upmost concern. Riding without a helmet is in my book just as idiotic as my example above, and should therefore be something you don't just say "his problem only" towards.

Cheers,

 

[Capo79]

Okay, you are entitled to your opinion, but, explain to me how the following could not be reasonably held by someone else:



If you are willing to allow the government to dictate behavior because of higher insurance, cost to society or whatever, don't be surprised or complain when someone in power decides you don't need to do something you like to do.

Sure, motorcycle riding is a risky business. Therefore, it is often associated with relatively high insurance costs. One could argue that motorcycles should be banned, along with a whole lot of other activities, but there are mechanisms that can control it.

I promise you, if the motorcycle was invented today (or even the car for that matter) everything else equal, it wouldn't be legal. It would be considered to be too costly for society etc. This in particular is one hell of an argument for regulations, as it's harder for any legislator to ban things when they are well controlled in beforehand.

 

[C-bus Biker]

Personal responsibility. I don't need a nanny government legislating away our freedom in the name of safety. Kriswithak's comment about the public health system is exactly why. The more dependence we have on our caretakers, the bigger the stick to threaten. If you're dumb enough to make the squidly choice, enjoy your new motorized chair. Not my problem. Social Darwinism ftw!


I ride atgatt, by the way. No one mandated it either.

 

[mrphotoman]

Personal responsibility. I don't need a nanny government legislating away our freedom in the name of safety. Kriswithak's comment about the public health system is exactly why. The more dependence we have on our caretakers, the bigger the stick to threaten. If you're dumb enough to make the squidly choice, enjoy your new motorized chair. Not my problem. Social Darwinism ftw!


I ride atgatt, by the way. No one mandated it either.

you are right everyone should be personally be responsible for everything they do. we do not require any laws or any government or heck even an economy. Everyone should just move back into caves and do as they please to anyone or anything. We need no society, no rules, no education, etc from "big brother".

 

[C-bus Biker]

you are right everyone should be personally be responsible for everything they do. we do not require any laws or any government or heck even an economy. Everyone should just move back into caves and do as they please to anyone or anything. We need no society, no rules, no education, etc from "big brother".

Pretty much. I do agree that Ohio has quite a few riders without helmets. My three-year-old points out every one of them. Freedom means that we are free to make good decisions as well as bad ones.... as long as those decisions don't trample another's freedom.

Edit: why would you include the economy in your rant? Is it big brother's responsibility to provide us with jobs?

 

[mrphotoman]

Pretty much. I do agree that Ohio has quite a few riders without helmets. My three-year-old points out every one of them. Freedom means that we are free to make good decisions as well as bad ones.... as long as those decisions don't trample another's freedom.

Edit: why would you include the economy in your rant? Is it big brother's responsibility to provide us with jobs?

it was a joke, i thought it was pretty obvious.