Largest tax increase in history?

[Cuba]

Cap and Tax...

The Cap and Tax Fiction - WSJ.com

The biggest doozy in the CBO analysis was its extraordinary decision to look only at the day-to-day costs of operating a trading program, rather than the wider consequences energy restriction would have on the economy. The CBO acknowledges this in a footnote: "The resource cost does not indicate the potential decrease in gross domestic product (GDP) that could result from the cap."

The hit to GDP is the real threat in this bill. The whole point of cap and trade is to hike the price of electricity and gas so that Americans will use less. These higher prices will show up not just in electricity bills or at the gas station but in every manufactured good, from food to cars. Consumers will cut back on spending, which in turn will cut back on production, which results in fewer jobs created or higher unemployment. Some companies will instead move their operations overseas, with the same result.

With the speed that they are rushing this through you'd almost think it was another "stimulus". They've inexplicably added about 300 pages to the bill this week, and since it is being written behind closed doors, and unilaterally, no one really knows what's in it other than massive increases in production costs for every industry in the United States. I wonder if they will give us, or themselves, a chance to read it and discuss it before voting on something without careful consideration of the MASSIVE consequences of such a move. Obama is still on the board of that carbon trading brokerage isn't he?

 

[rickvan67]

I've already fired off emails to both of my senators and my representative asking them to oppose this bill...not likely though, they're all Democrats.

 

[Cuba]

Another take on it:

Too big, too fast -- chicagotribune.com

This simply isn't how decisions should be made. It is exactly what Obama promissed us would not happen. ZERO transparency, ZERO bipartisanship, ZERO debate. I will never forget the travesty that was the "stimulus" bill, but this one may be worse. Handled in exactly the same way, not even the authors know what is in it and no one will be allowed to read it. Our politicians are now making decisions purely based on politics rather than even cursory consideration of the effects they will have.

HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY VOTE FOR SOMETHING YOU HAVEN'T READ???

And if you do, how can we possibly have any confidense in your abilities as our representative? You have blatently proved, again, that you simply are not doing your job. 2010 elections can't come soon enough.

 

[Moses195]

He has basically lied or back tracked or changed his story on every issue. Yes I listen Rush so I know about the lies I'm being told! It's pretty much all over as a free Capatalistic Society.

 

[stevesnj]

Lets just vote a Republican back into office and im sure all will be better huh?

 

[Moses195]

I used to think that but now I have NO HOPE FOR ANYONE!

 

[wrightme43]

I used to think that but now I have NO HOPE FOR ANYONE!

Exactly they are all lying scumballs. The whole freaking lot of them.

 

[dark_isz]

Lets just vote a Republican back into office and im sure all will be better huh?

LOL! Like it was for the last 8 years, right?

Thanks, I needed a laugh this morning! :thumbup:

 

[Cuba]

Lets just vote a Republican back into office and im sure all will be better huh?

How about we hold the current guy accountable? How about rather than shoving through legislation that no one has read or can possibly fully understand, we force transparency, bipartisanship, and debate over these very serious issues? How about our elected officials get voted out when they so blatantly fail to do their jobs, rather than the populous hitting the party lever?

Please, try and defend this behavior, make a fool of yourself :thumbup:

 

[Cuba]

Strassel: The Climate Change Climate Change - WSJ.com

Austalia has voiced their opinion of this idea. What Nancy Pelosi and company are attempting to do here is simple. Ignore all of the mountains of scientific evidense to the contrary of their own plan, do not allow debate, cast all that disagree as "deniers" as if this theory were scientific fact, ignore the MASSIVE economic impacts of this legislation that will drive up costs accross the board for consumers while hamstringing US companies attempting to compete overseas, push it through before anyone has a chance to even read what it is they are agreeing to, and get it done during the worst recession since 1929.

This type of decision needs to be discussed before it is voted upon.

 

[mstewar1]

As one who is neither depublican nor remocrat, I watched CSPAN this morning kinda stunned. After they did the one minute speeches, they had a debate about the "energy bill." I found it unsettling that the dems were just so stiff, so inflexible in response to the reps requests for more debate and review of the legislation. And they all got the bill delivered to them at some stupid early morning hour. Like Cuba has pointed out, no one's reading this stuff! Maybe staffers are skimming it and getting some sort of high points, but what's hiding in the details?

And yet I'm also reminded of how Cheney invited in a bunch of representatives from the energy industry and had a meeting, behind closed doors, from which came that administration's energy bill/policy.

They're all a bunch of windbags, beholden to their special interests. Bah

 

[Oscar54]

Gee, did you think this up all by yourself?


Edit (wrightme43 is responsible)

This post makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Cuba]

And another update:

Sen. Inhofe Calls for Inquiry Into 'Suppressed' Climate Change Report - Political News - FOXNews.com

Scary stuff. Not only will they not debate it, they won't allow dissenting opinions to be heard. They are silencing the debate. Isn't it weird that for the past 11 years global temperatures have been dropping? Isn't that new evidense that appears contrary to the armageddon that Al Gore and Obama are promissing us will happen? Why wont they discuss it? Why is it more important to be in control of the decision than it is to make the RIGHT decision? Why, at the absolute minimum, would we hamstring ourselves without using it as a massive political capital? This would constitute a HUGE bargaining chip but it has been thrown out for free. We are putting ourselves at a huge disadvantage and making it extremely unattractive to manufacture goods in our country if others are operating without these massive taxes. Why aren't we forcing other countrties to adopt similar legislation? Why are China and India not involved in anyway? Why would a comapany open a plant in the US if it will cost so much more to produce anything than say, Mexico? The only answer is more punitive taxes on imported goods, which drive up the costs even further. In good times this would be economic disaster, but this is being pushed during the worst possible time. The reason this is being pushed so hard, without review or debate, during the worst economic recession since 1929, is because they can. Because they are afraid that the evidence doesn't show a need for it. Because they know their time for uncontrolled tax and spending increases is coming to a close. Because if they open the debate the believe they will lose it.

I believe this is more about control than it is about the environment. If you grant yourself the power to levy enormous taxes on business, AND the power to grant enormous subsidies with taxpayer dollars, you decide who lives or dies. You have the power to bankrupt companies (just like he planned to do prior to his campaign). These companies will be reliant on the administration for survival, they will need to stay on his good side, because they know the president meant it when he said "we're keeping score".

Is he still on the board of that carbon emission broker that has been patiently waiting for this to pass so they can make ungodly amounts of money from the taxes we will have to pay on this?