GARGOYLES in my 6!!

warrencycle

warrencycle

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So I built this this Rat Yammy SF. Looks rough, everything on it is rebuilt aside from the engine which had 11, 000 miles on it. I took it out and was hitting some curves and doing some quarter mile tests on it. About the third or fourth launch I heard a crack followed by this awful clacking. The clacking seemed to increase when reving or during deceleration, whether I had the clutch in or not. Made back home and upon inspection I had broke the friction disk closest to the trans. I replaced the clutch and the clacking continued. Heres a link to a video of the noise:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=495qZyGxwKU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I have since ripped off every cover on the motor in search of some kind of visual damage but I see nothing. Found a few chunks of metal in the pan, but they look to be pieces of the privious clutch. Any ideas!?

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I am guessing but it sounds like can chain slack. Wonder if debris worked its way up the cam chain and damaged the guide or the tensioner.

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Is it engine speed or perhaps at reduced pace or increased pace.

1/2 engine speed is valve train speed.

Gear box is next in line. So to your knowledge, all clutch parts were recovered? An lastly, did it appear as though the clutch part that came out was mauled by anything? i.e. did it go through a chain / sprocket, gear set and get smashed or just bent on the way out?

A stethoscope, long wooden stick and listen. See where it comes from. Also, no change with clutch in/out?
 
Kinda thinking along those lines. From what I'm reading on other feeds, but no one has yet posted a video of the sound. So I figure why not. Hand cranked the engine but couldn't here the noise.

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FinalImpact said:
Is it engine speed or perhaps at reduced pace or increased pace.

1/2 engine speed is valve train speed.

Gear box is next in line. So to your knowledge, all clutch parts were recovered? An lastly, did it appear as though the clutch part that came out was mauled by anything? i.e. did it go through a chain / sprocket, gear set and get smashed or just bent on the way out?

A stethoscope, long wooden stick and listen. See where it comes from. Also, no change with clutch in/out?
Click to expand...

The chunk of clutch that was missing might have but maybe not been equal to the chunks that were shredded at the buttom of the pan. Hard to say. But yes no change with new clutch. If you watch the video the noise is definitely coming from the back end or tranny end. And is loader on the clutch side. Tomorrow I'm going to pull the clutch basket and fly wheel. And see if the beast will show itself.

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warrencycle said:
The chunk of clutch that was missing might have but maybe not been equal to the chunks that were shredded at the buttom of the pan. Hard to say. But yes no change with new clutch. If you watch the video the noise is definitely coming from the back end or tranny end. And is loader on the clutch side. Tomorrow I'm going to pull the clutch basket and fly wheel. And see if the beast will show itself.

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Click to expand...

I'm confused. So, you're saying this nice big chunk is misleading and there were lots of smaller bits??
51615d1388779282-gargoyles-my-6-uploadfromtaptalk1388779418735.jpg


IME (In my Experience), when things like the metal backing go through a gear set they come out with crunch marks. Like when you put your penny into those hand crank things and make a stamping from them. From this, the gear set can be noisy. So, can you tell if any of the shed parts were SQUASHED BADLY so as to smash them flat or cut them?
 
FinalImpact said:
I'm confused. So, you're saying this nice big chunk is misleading and there were lots of smaller bits??
51615d1388779282-gargoyles-my-6-uploadfromtaptalk1388779418735.jpg


IME (In my Experience), when things like the metal backing go through a gear set they come out with crunch marks. Like when you put your penny into those hand crank things and make a stamping from them. From this, the gear set can be noisy. So, can you tell if any of the shed parts were SQUASHED BADLY so as to smash them flat or cut them?
Click to expand...

I was saying that the chunk missing from the disk. The piece I never recovered, doesn't seem to equal the bits n chunks I found in the pan. And the seem to be both shredded and stamped. See pic.

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That noise sounds like cam chain noise. The FZ6 is known for it's auto adjusting cam chain tensioner (CCT) having to be replaced. If there is lots of chain slack you'll need additional part but I doubt it with only 11k on the motor...

Also from Vegasrider's (Kenny) experience, his loose cam chain had enough slack that it hit ate through the Crank Shaft Position Sensor. So I would fix it asap besides the additional possibility of jumping a tooth or two...
 
Last edited:
Motogiro said:
That noise sounds like cam chain noise. The FZ6 is known for it's auto adjusting cam chain tensioner (CCT) having to be replaced. If there is lots of chain slack you'll need additional part but I doubt it with only 11k on the motor...

Also from Vegasrider's (Kenny) experience, his loose cam chain had enough slack that it hit ate through the Crank Shaft Position Sensor. So I would fix it asap besides the additional possibility of jumping a tooth or two...
Click to expand...

I rode it maybe 2 miles back after it started and ripped it apart immediately. No riding until she, "Christine 5" is fixed. Thanks!

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For the record I hit 116mph in a little less than a quarter mile. In a perfect world that puts me in the 11 seconds area. Not too shabby for a beat up 600.

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I'll pretend i didnt hear you say the noise is from the back by the gear box.
I listened to the vid just now. IMO the noise is the gear box. Why, when you rev it, fixed gears travel at crank speed always. Timing chain, oil pump, cams and the clutch basket are all fixed to the crank. Point, the sound I Hear does not sound to be fixed to crank rpm. That leaves the gear box because in N, six gears are literally floating. Thus the decelerate are a different rate.
Where to from here? Have you put it into gear on the stand? Be very careful...
Any difference?
 
I don't think that is correct. It is a constant mesh gearbox, so the driven gears are always rotating at a speed proportional to the driving gears. All the gear pairs accelerate and decelerate proportionally.

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FinalImpact said:
I'll pretend i didnt hear you say the noise is from the back by the gear box.
I listened to the vid just now. IMO the noise is the gear box. Why, when you rev it, fixed gears travel at crank speed always. Timing chain, oil pump, cams and the clutch basket are all fixed to the crank. Point, the sound I Hear does not sound to be fixed to crank rpm. That leaves the gear box because in N, six gears are literally floating. Thus the decelerate are a different rate.
Where to from here? Have you put it into gear on the stand? Be very careful...
Any difference?
Click to expand...

I have, same noise, same effect. No lose of power. Regardless of which gear its in, or if the clutch is pulled in, it produces the same sound. The noise is clearly coming from the trans. I'm a little better than shade tree at this stuff, just haven't run into this situation or sound. I figured,since FZs have little quirks, and I'm new to them, this might be one, and someone has delt with it before. Rather than disecting the entire engine. Which is basically what I'm doin.

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Last edited:
trepetti said:
I don't think that is correct. It is a constant mesh gearbox, so the driven gears are always rotating at a speed proportional to the driving gears. All the gear pairs accelerate and decelerate proportionally.

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Click to expand...

Hindsite says you're correct. It just sounds like there is lag.
 
Since I know nothing about anything mechanical I hesitate to chime in, but...

You suspect there are pieces of the destroyed clutch bit floating around in your engine somewhere, yes? Have you considered just getting a little magnet-on-a-stick and plumbing every place in the engine you can easily reach, looking for bits?
 
Water Bear said:
Since I know nothing about anything mechanical I hesitate to chime in, but...

You suspect there are pieces of the destroyed clutch bit floating around in your engine somewhere, yes? Have you considered just getting a little magnet-on-a-stick and plumbing every place in the engine you can easily reach, looking for bits?
Click to expand...

Clutch friction disks are cast aluminum.

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