EPA approves California emissions standard
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Cuba
Junior Member
Yes, right place. :welcome:
I actually like this. States are supposed to exercise their 10th amendment rights and govern how their citizens want. If the people of California want uber strict regulations for themselves then far be it from me to stand in their way, they have the right to govern for the people. If California is having major smog issues then they should have the ability to deal with it if their people want to, but they are the ones that will deal with the consequences of those choices. Pennsylvania does not have that problem, and we have very different opinions on spending, welfare, and government control than Californians, (thank God!) so let us decide what we will do in our own state (within reason, we aren't dumping medical waste into the oceans or anything) and we'll do the same for you.
That being said: New Jersey, we see you over there...
Yeah that's awesome! Isn't less pollution better? Aren't less polluting cars better for everybody in the long run?
Oh and I am glad we have your approval Cuba, that makes us all feel so much better
Oh and I am glad we have your approval Cuba, that makes us all feel so much better
Cuba
Junior Member
Yeah that's awesome! Isn't less pollution better? Aren't less polluting cars better for everybody in the long run?
Oh and I am glad we have your approval Cuba, that makes us all feel so much better
Hey wouldn't NO cars be even better?!? Isn't your state shutting down today anyway due to bankruptcy? That should make you feel so much better too, less cars on the road. :cheer:
I don't care what you guys do as long as you keep it over there and don't get any bailouts. The effects of your policies speak for themselves. No thanks!
In terms of pollution, no cars would obviously be better... that's pretty obvious yes... or cars that don't pollute would do the same job, like my future car: http://www.teslamotors.com/
Yeah apparently my state is shutting down but as usual no-one really cares We have the sun, the beach and rock & roll, so life is good
Yeah apparently my state is shutting down but as usual no-one really cares
We have the sun, the beach and rock & roll, so life is good
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yeah, cause when you plug an electric car into the wall it gets it's power from magic beans. it all pollutes. and let's not even worry about discussing the issues of getting power grids up to be able to handle all the electric cars. they are nice looking cars though.
personally, i'm torn. i do believe very much in states rights. i just wonder what sort of consequences this has for the rest of us. obviously it's cheaper to make something when everyone wants the same thing. costs go up when people want something special. i wonder what would happen if every state decided to start setting standards that would be too hard for manufacturers to make a product that could be acceptable to a wide audience.
but, i'm ignorant on the subject. i have no clue if that will matter. just my original thoughts.
Independently of electric cars, the US power grid will have to be updated soon anyway... it's currently congested and half broken already!
And FYI, a 45min charge @ 220VAC represents virtually NOTHING in terms of pollution compared to burning 20 gallons of unleaded, and that's considering coal power plants, not nuclear, where it'd be even less :thumbup:
Cuba
Junior Member
Convia: Providers of Energy Management Controls
Maybe not. California suffers massive problems with their grid because they can't shed load when needed, and they consume MASSIVE amounts of energy, a lot of that being waste. The idea here is to eliminate much of that waste through various rather simple methods such as daylight harvesting (lights sense when there are enough lumens from other sources like sun coming from the window and automatically shut down) and occupancy sensing (conference rooms, classrooms, etc. have passive IR sensors that shut everything down when no one is present. This even gets down to the cubicle level, someone goes to the bathroom and their lights/radio/whatever shut down automatically) and automatic load shedding(when the grid is drawing too much power a convia enabled building can run preset programs that dim lights, raise or lower temperatures a few degrees, etc. to temporarily reduce consumption and prevent brown outs.
You can monitor run detailed analysis on your buildings' electrical usage down to the individual workstation. You can see real time where you are drawing power and make adjustments to reduce the waste. You can reduce your overall energy consumption by 30-40% without feeling any pinch from it, which can mean millions of dollars a year for larger facilities.
The effects are quite staggering, for a school with limited capital budgets you can actually lease this system, meaning your immediate savings in energy costs exceed your lease payments. This means you have made a cash POSITIVE purchase, thus reducing your energy costs, paying off the system in seven years, and still INCREASING your cash flow during that term.
This is an example of what private business is about. Convia isn't doing this to save the whales, they are doing it to make a lot of money. They aren't hurting businesses to reach some arbitrary carbon goal, they are helping businesses become more profitable. It is a win win, even the electric companies win big by the load shedding capabilities that will save them billions a year by avoiding brownouts and decreasing the need for further infrastructure investments.
Less emissions, less reliance on foreign oil, less expenses for business, less expenses for utility companies, and big profits for the inventors and business partners selling it. No need for taxes that drive up costs for everyone, no need to hamstring US companies trying to remain competitive abroad, no loss of manufacturering jobs due to companies moving to greener pastures. In fact, there is no need for government intervention at all.
I am not talking about California, I am talking about the US grid as a whole.
Giving me a small localized solution to save power has nothing to do with the fact that the US grid itself is old, outdated, inefficient and congested.
To be able to use power sources of the future, a new grid will be necessary. That's all I was saying.
Giving me a small localized solution to save power has nothing to do with the fact that the US grid itself is old, outdated, inefficient and congested.
To be able to use power sources of the future, a new grid will be necessary. That's all I was saying.
Cuba
Junior Member
FYI, it takes 37 hours to recharge a Tesla with a 120 volt wall outlet. 10 hours on a 240, and 3 hours with their "quick charge" kit.
Tesla Roadster Review: Costly Options Should Be Standard Equipment - AllCarsElectric.com
It takes 16 hours to charge in England apparently, doesn't get even remotely close to 250 miles when driven hard, and it is still very far from being reliable in any way:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG3bMKR5eXk]YouTube - Top Gear reviews the Tesla Roadster[/ame]
It's a very exciting idea, but not fully baked just yet. I think it'll be a few years before it is really ready for any sort of mass production, but they still need to get the cost down. Their competitor (I can't remember his name but he and the Tesla creators have some unpleasant history) who is currently building an all electric sedan that looks like sort of like a DB9 should help them motivate.
Cuba
Junior Member
Convia and other energy controls are not a small localized solution in any way. 30% less energy consumption nationwide sort of solves the congestion problem doesn't it? And that isn't even taking into account the load shedding capability. It's a closed loop system and it's going to be huge. Energy companies are already all over this because it solves so many of the problems of their existing grid.
What was I thinking! I challenged something Cuba said! my bad
You really know everything, so I take back what I said, a new grid in the US will never be needed.
Sorry again man!
You really know everything, so I take back what I said, a new grid in the US will never be needed.
Sorry again man!
Cuba
Junior Member
What was I thinking! I challenged something Cuba said! my bad
You really know everything, so I take back what I said, a new grid in the US will never be needed.
Sorry again man!
Hey no problem, you were just talking about things you haven't researched and making general assumptions about it. It happens. A "new grid" is not needed, but upgrades, retrofits, and renovations in some areas will be, sure. The thing is energy controls of this nature are a fairly new technology, and will greatly reduce the load on the existing grids as well as providing extremely valuable monitoring and control in the form of load shedding. This expands the coverage and effectiveness of the grid, and relieves much of the pressure on utility companies in areas like yours suffering from overload by reducing the need for more infrastructure, more plants, etc. It gives them time to do things gradually and cost effectively.
It's a good thing. Funny that even when I'm talking about an extremely environmentally friendly, green technology that will greatly reduce carbon emissions and waste, and help the economy (two things California would kill for) you still manage to ignore the positives and bicker about your random assesments of the nations electrical grids. This is a huge positive and I can't imagine a state where it will have a bigger impact than California. Is it because it wasn't a government mandated power grab that turns you off, or because I was the one discussing it? Bipartisanship can actually work you know, if you just categorically ignore anyone with differing views then no one gets anywhere. I've just pointed out a very simple and graceful way to solve several MAJOR problems for you with one simple product, be happy it's coming. If Obama actually lowered healthcare costs for all, reduced taxes on 95% of Americans, and improved the economy and the environment at the same time without shredding the constitution or taking away people's rights or causing hyperinflation or loading us with unsustainable debt levels, I would have to say thanks. :thumbup:
tuningfork
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Some wood forthe fire:
From another (more informative?) article I read, part of the "agreement" is that the FED standard will be adopting the CA standard...so CA *is* going to be regulating PA after all
"The federal government agrees to adopt California's standards as its own, and the state agrees not to toughen the standards before 2017. Automakers agree to drop lawsuits against California's standards."
EPA gives California emissions waiver - Los Angeles Times
Cuba
Junior Member
Some wood forthe fire:
From another (more informative?) article I read, part of the "agreement" is that the FED standard will be adopting the CA standard...so CA *is* going to be regulating PA after all
"The federal government agrees to adopt California's standards as its own, and the state agrees not to toughen the standards before 2017. Automakers agree to drop lawsuits against California's standards."
EPA gives California emissions waiver - Los Angeles Times
Good find! Well they aren't quite saying the fed will adopt CA standards, they are allowing California to do it first as a "test bed", but with the current administration already meddling with the EPA like covering up the studies that contradict global warming (or is it cooling now?) I wouldn't be surprised it they try it further down the road. Obama is already mandating extremely strict mileage standards anyway (which admittedly has its plus sides) so we shall see. But out here in beautiful smog free Pennsylvania (like a LOT of areas in the US) we would just prefer to be left alone. I'm still going to buy a GTO and swap in an aggressive cam, aggressive tune, and remove the cats though. :thumbup:
:rof: you're very good at pissing ppl off... I thought I was pretty good, but you definitely win hands down. I wish you could see the way you come off in most of your posts... you would probably be shocked
I am going to start calling you Mr. Wikipedia from now on! Mr. expert in anything and everything! Got a question about nuclear physics? Ask Cuba! Need info about the US power grid! Ask Cuba! Need a political consultant with all the right answers to fix the World? Go see Cuba!!! So we don't need a new grid, but we need to fix, retrofit, change, improve, upgrade, renovate, update, and repair the existing one... I think we're talking about the same thing :thumbup:
W
wrightme43
:rof: you're very good at pissing ppl off... I thought I was pretty good, but you definitely win hands down. I wish you could see the way you come off in most of your posts... you would probably be shocked
So we don't need a new grid, but we need to fix, retrofit, change, improve, upgrade, renovate, update, and repair the existing one... I think we're talking about the same thing :thumbup:
You know David he was more than polite to you. Your first post is veru sarcastic, he ignored than answered what you said, resonably, then after more sarcasism, you add more on to it, then when every point you bring up is handled you add more sarcasm. You are baiting in this thread.
Touché :spank:
I guess that means I need to present my formal apology to Cuba. I am really sorry Cuba. :bow:
:rof:
I guess that means I need to present my formal apology to Cuba. I am really sorry Cuba. :bow:
:rof:
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Cuba
Junior Member
No need man, you'll be sorry enough as is judging from the news coming out of California. Maybe... IOU? :rof:
Only it isn't funny at all. The effects of the complete failure that is the California government will be severe and they will effect all of us, regardless of whether or not Obama decides to break his promisses not to bail them out. I doubt he will though, he'd win CA in 2012 even if he bombed them. The small businesses that provide services to the state will be devastated and many will go under as a result. Employees won't be paid their salaries. There is no confidence in the state (it has by far the worst credit rating in the union) and no sense for when these funny money IOU's will actually be paid, this is not good for a LOT of people.
Interesting side note: When states don't have their operating budgets approved, they don't pay their state employees, state police, etc., sometimes for months. They still have to work, but they don't get paid until the budget is passed. But the states DO pay 100% of their welfare programs, unemployment, and even the wages for convicted felons stamping license plates in the state pen. Go figure.
Only it isn't funny at all. The effects of the complete failure that is the California government will be severe and they will effect all of us, regardless of whether or not Obama decides to break his promisses not to bail them out. I doubt he will though, he'd win CA in 2012 even if he bombed them. The small businesses that provide services to the state will be devastated and many will go under as a result. Employees won't be paid their salaries. There is no confidence in the state (it has by far the worst credit rating in the union) and no sense for when these funny money IOU's will actually be paid, this is not good for a LOT of people.
Interesting side note: When states don't have their operating budgets approved, they don't pay their state employees, state police, etc., sometimes for months. They still have to work, but they don't get paid until the budget is passed. But the states DO pay 100% of their welfare programs, unemployment, and even the wages for convicted felons stamping license plates in the state pen. Go figure.
Yeah it sounds really bad, yet no-one really gives a ****, and business goes as usual... Californians are more worried about Michael Jackson than the state budget being in the toilet...
