Cracked Frame...

[Mac fz6n]

I found a crack in my frame while washing the bike after today's ride.

I have searched and found two previous examples, ChevyFazer (2012) and Abraxas (2009).
Both seem to fix it with welding.

I would be interested to know if those bikes are still going?

I'm going to a dealer Monday just to see what they say.
The bike is ridden hard, but I never do wheelies or stunts.

It's a 2004 FZ6N with 80,750 k's (50,175 mile, hey I could join the 50k club).

Any thought's on what I should do???

Cheers,
Mac.

 

[FinalImpact]

^^ Wow that's a bummer. Very unfortunate! Just about the same place as Chevy's bike too. That one was sold and I never saw the new owner come on board so I'm not sure how it held up.

Other one, unknown also.

Only reason it should crack is its being stressed by the engine mounting bolts. That is, the bolts were potentially tightened under load and the years of being stressed and with vibes makes the casting crack.

Are you able to do a tear down? Is that in your skill set?

 

[major tom]

Final Impact, what do you mean the 'bolts were tightened under load'? Aluminum, for all its desirable qualities, has a finite life span. Take aluminum MT Bikes for example.
This still is most traumatic! And these frames have no welds to create stress risers. Maybe the two halves for some reason do not line up exactly right?

 

[FinalImpact]

Final Impact, what do you mean the 'bolts were tightened under load'? Aluminum, for all its desirable qualities, has a finite life span. Take aluminum MT Bikes for example.
This still is most traumatic! And these frames have no welds to create stress risers. Maybe the two halves for some reason do not line up exactly right?

The engine is part of the frame. That is, the engine acts as a stressed member, supporting the frame.

Imagine this; (go abstract with me for a moment), lets say you hold the frame solidly down to earth, jack the engine up using some amount of force and insert & torque mounting bolts. This scenario would "load the frame" placing some amount of stress on the die-cast frame. Over time, the vibes across the internal webing form cracks.

As for a mt bike frame - very different material as it does flex and bend w/out breaking. It will stress fracture if abused enough. Difference between cast vs drawn materials I suspect.

In short when dealing with cast components; if you have to force a bolt to align, you have stressed the structure and if subject to vibrations or high loads it will not handle it as well over time as it may induce a fracture.

 

[The_Paragon]

Aluminum, for all its desirable qualities, has a finite life span. Take aluminum MT Bikes for example.

Lol, the # of Mtn bike frames Ive cracked... too Many!
One of my bikes cracked in the middle of a casting. 2 Others (Trek/Gary Fisher products, ahem).. one broke the casting where the rear brake caliper mounted, and another one at a weld where the seat stay jointed the seat tube.

I raced on a team here in WI, and have seen numerous frame breaks.

To me it looks like the casting arm was stressed forward, and thus developed the crack on inner edge.

 

[Mac fz6n]

^^ Wow that's a bummer. Very unfortunate! Just about the same place as Chevy's bike too. That one was sold and I never saw the new owner come on board so I'm not sure how it held up.

Other one, unknown also.

Only reason it should crack is its being stressed by the engine mounting bolts. That is, the bolts were potentially tightened under load and the years of being stressed and with vibes makes the casting crack.

Are you able to do a tear down? Is that in your skill set?

Looks like I'm going with welding it...

Spoke to local Yamaha dealer, new frame over $5000
He also said Yamaha won't do anything for me (not that I expected them to, but had to ask).

Thankfully my mechanic has given me the number of a very experienced welder/fabricator, say's if he can't fix it, it can't be fixed!!

Now just need to find out what it's going to cost, and work out how I'm getting the bike apart (I know :rtfm.

Wish me luck.

Cheers,
Mac.

 

[FinalImpact]

I'm curious to know if this engine has ever been removed before and/or during the tear down if the fasteners securing the engine move or the frame moves a small amount when they have the tension released.

Also, you might ping [MENTION=3172]skooter65[/MENTION] about a frame. Another option is fleebay, but shipping and title changing may outway the repair cost.

Good luck. Let us know if you need anything.

 

[scidork]

Sounds like a nice pragmatic method though, weld it first and keep an eye on it while looking out for alternative long term solutions in case the weld doesn't work. Worth a try and better than riding with it as you were, albeit ignorance is usually bliss.

 

[Mac fz6n]

I'm curious to know if this engine has ever been removed before and/or during the tear down if the fasteners securing the engine move or the frame moves a small amount when they have the tension released.

I've owned bike since 7k on the clock (now 80k), so I don't think it's ever been removed.


I haven't started to pull it apart yet, but I did have a quick check of the mounting bolts.

I found the lower rear bolt wasn't tight! (see attached)
Not about to fall out or anything, but definitely not to spec.

Guess that's part of the reason???

Anyway, going to pull it apart and try welding.

I'll do my best to record my progress and any more issues I find along the way.
Hope to take plenty of pics if anyone is interested.

Wish me luck...

Mac.

 

[yamihoe]

Travis (chevyFazer) pulled the whole bike apart and welded the frame (hes a metallurgist and a welder) so he is definitely qualified to do welding on aluminum. He sold the bike shortly after and the new owner is still riding it to my knowledge, at least as of the end of 2013 summer.

Travis was very hard on the bike, he kept up with maintenance but he was not shy of putting the front end up or seeing the rev limiter

 

[FinalImpact]

I've owned bike since 7k on the clock (now 80k), so I don't think it's ever been removed.

I haven't started to pull it apart yet, but I did have a quick check of the mounting bolts.

I found the lower rear bolt wasn't tight! (see attached)
Not about to fall out or anything, but definitely not to spec.

Guess that's part of the reason???

Anyway, going to pull it apart and try welding.

I'll do my best to record my progress and any more issues I find along the way.
Hope to take plenty of pics if anyone is interested.

Wish me luck...

Mac.

Of all the bolts to be loose and cause a fracture, that would be my least likely pick as the swing arm cross bolt just above it is basically doing its job.

So, when the swing arm cross bolt is loosened, keep a close eye on the frame for movement. If its loaded, the right side lower leg would likely **try** to move slightly forward and it could be the smallest amount.

During all bolt extractions one would want to support the frame and basically support the engine so its essentially neutral neither lifting the frame or pulling it down. Then when the swing arm bolt is loosened you might see it move a tiny amount but the key point is none of the bolts should be bound or off center in the bolt holes. They should all plunge right through the center so this doesn't repeat. Does that make sense?

And yes, i do wish you luck!

 

[fazil]

Any update on welding the frame?

 

[FinalImpact]

Any update on welding the frame?

^^ Problems?

 

[fazil]

No but may be someday it cracks.

 

[ChevyFazer]

my buddy still has my bike and the frame is still holding strong, even after he let his wife right it and drop it then let a friend right it and drop it then she would a friend right it in rear ended a semi but guess what that frame is still together lol

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[ChevyFazer]

Wow my voice type made me seem drunk on my last post

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[Mac fz6n]

Any update on welding the frame?

First I have to confess, I haven't had the frame fixed yet...
I have done over 8000 k's (5000 miles) since my original post

The crack hasn't grown at all, I check it before and after every ride.
This includes weekend riding in the mountains, keeping up with my mate on a Z1000.


When the weather turns bad and I can't ride I will probably pull it apart and get it fixed then.
I still hope to get plenty of pics, and record my progress for anyone interested.


Good reminder for all, check your bolts are tight!

Cheers,
Mac.

 

[ChevyFazer]

Careful in thinking it hasn't grown at all, most of the growth will be on.the inside where you can't see. Any excesses throttle will make it grow, any clutch UPS or power UPS will make it grow, over 5000 miles mine grew .064" of course I was trying to destroy my bike too

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[Mac fz6n]

Careful in thinking it hasn't grown at all, most of the growth will be on.the inside where you can't see. Any excesses throttle will make it grow, any clutch UPS or power UPS will make it grow, over 5000 miles mine grew .064" of course I was trying to destroy my bike too

Well, it looks like I spoke too soon....

Checked my bike after Saturday morning ride - Crack has grown!!

So, Today I started pulling bike apart.
Subframe removed, next to drop out the motor.

Going to try to remember to take plenty of pics, you get caught up doing the work and you forget too.

Will keep updating as I go.

Cheers,
Mac.

 

[ShoopCE]

Good Luck!!! :thumbup: