Camshaft profile, anyone know the specs???

[FinalImpact]

All,
I was just curious if anyone has stumbled across the cam specifications for opening, closing, duration, dwell, lift ect. . . . for both the FZ6 and the R6 or either for that matter.

It would be interesting to compare them to them and see where the R6 gets it power from!

Thanks in advance!

 

[Marthy]

I was wondering the same thing. Accordingly the the label on the FZ6 cams I got they were from 2004. This is where I got them dialed for now, still exploring different setting to find the sweet spot. But a little change in degree is a huge change in engine characteristic.

IVO: 39
IVC: 65
ILC: 103

EVO: 63
EVC: 25
ELC: 109

Those are spec from 07 R6 I found... and pretty much spot on with what I got!

my ILC: 104 and ELC: 109.

 

[FinalImpact]

Rep Point for you for Follow-up on my out dated post! Now to noodle a little-bit. . .
But do you know at what height? I've never seen when they count the number as far as "what they consider the event" i.e. 1.27mm (0.50"). . .

Thanks! :thumbup:

 

[Marthy]

Look like those are "advertise" numbers. I can give you my number @ 1mm (Jap standard...) tomorrow. I was trying to find out the lob center on the FZ6 or those spec also. I have a little flat spot from 6K to 8K that I can figure out.

I first started with 102/107, then 104/107. Now I tried 104/109. It's a hair... 2 degree is like nothing but make a huge difference. On that last setting I can feel it flatten the power curve. I'm not sure if I fix the dip from 6-8K or I just lost the top end rush yet. I couldn't get it a good run on my way back from work tonight. So I think I needed to go the other way around and retard the exhaust cam for more overlap.

A lot different than tuning a Civic! LOL It takes a lot of work to move the cams few degree... I have a full fairing too!

In the back of my mind I start to think also that the fact that the 6R doesn't have any secondary flies combine with high duration cam... it's going to be hard to tune it. Because with the 104/107 If I just go progressively on the throttle... it freaking get there and scream pass 9K! Well, relatively 6R speaking. So I'll put the numbers @ 1mm for you tomorrow. At the same time if someone can give me or find out about the Intake and Exhaust lobe center on the FZ6 that might give me a huge help.

 

[Marthy]

As promise, here's the number I have for the 04 FZ6 cams.

IVO: 45 BTDC (6 @ 1mm)
IVC: 78 ABDC (35 @ 1mm)
ILC: 104.5

(180+6+35) /2 -6=104.5 degree

EVO: 60 BBDC (40 @ 1mm)
EVC: 27 ATDC (5 @ 1mm)

ELC: 107.5 degree

I do not remember the total lift of the cams. But that can be found in the FZ6 manual. (max lobe measurement - base circle)

Hope it help. Those number could be a snug different on the FZ6... that's what I was hoping to find also. Since those are about the same numbers as the 07 R6. My educated guess would be to compare the FZ6 and R6 cam gears. Maybe the only difference is the way the cams are timed. You will be amaze what 1 or 2 degree does. (.006" slot in the cam gear is about 1 degree... give and take)

 

[fazil]

Maybe the only difference is the way the cams are timed. You will be amaze what 1 or 2 degree does.

Possible?

Here is a comparison picture of both cam shafts.
They look like the same except their material (Fz6 cams are heavy) and an other extra ring on the R6 that i put a question mark on the picture

They also have diferent part numbers.
Especially cam shaft bolts (connection betweeen cam and sprocket) have different part numbers. I don't know why.

 

[Marthy]

That's why I didn't claim for sure! LOL Two cams can have the same lift and duration and still have a different profile.

I'm not sure what the thing in the middle is all about? Looks like it might still fit but unless I have them in hand... I can say for sure.

 

[fazil]

Sorry about my ignorance.
I don't know anything about these numbers:

IVO: 39
IVC: 65
ILC: 103

EVO: 63
EVC: 25
ELC: 109

Can someone explain what should be the numbers for a better low end torque?
And are they all same for R6 and Fz6?
I am on the market for R6 cam shafts. If they are the same it will be useless to pay for R6 cam shafts.

 

[yamihoe]

Sorry about my ignorance.
I don't know anything about these numbers:

IVO: 39
IVC: 65
ILC: 103

EVO: 63
EVC: 25
ELC: 109

My understanding of cams is max lift, lift at 50thousands and lobe separation but that is all from the cams I put in Ford and Chevrolet motors these sohc and dohc motors are new to me kinda......
my guess is: intake valve open, intake valve close, intake lobe centerline,
exhaust valve open, exhaust valve close, exhaust lobe centerline?

^ JUST A GUESS im not that familiar with the ohc concept....hooray for pushrods!

 

[fazil]

Here i found a camshaft calculator programme:

Camshaft Calculator - Wallace Racing

So can you confirm that

For better low end torque:

1. Easiest and cheapest way is just to advance both cams 2-4 degrees.
2. Less Duration for both cams
3. High Lift for both cams
4. Less overlap

 

[Cali rider]

...and an other extra ring on the R6 that i put a question mark on the picture...

That ring is for the cylinder identification sensor. It tells the ECU when the cam is in position for TDC for either the combustion stoke or the exhaust stroke of cylinder #1. The FZ6 doesn't need that sensor as it simply fires the spark plugs and triggers the fuel injectors for 1-4 and 2-3 every 180°

 

[Marthy]

Sorry about my ignorance.
I don't know anything about these numbers:

IVO: 39
IVC: 65
ILC: 103

EVO: 63
EVC: 25
ELC: 109

My understanding of cams is max lift, lift at 50thousands and lobe separation but that is all from the cams I put in Ford and Chevrolet motors these sohc and dohc motors are new to me kinda......
my guess is: intake valve open, intake valve close, intake lobe centerline,
exhaust valve open, exhaust valve close, exhaust lobe centerline?

^ JUST A GUESS im not that familiar with the ohc concept....hooray for pushrods!

Cams are cams Bro. Jap bike usually use the 1mm as a base mark (0.040" in English...lol)

The dominant cam is the Intake. That's the one that will set your power curve (intake valve closing) What I did in the past and work great for me is set the intake cam where it all happy then adjust the overlap with the exhaust cam. That's on a twin cam engine of course.

So on my ride by example this is where I'm at. My ILC is at 104 deg and peak HP is at 10200. (9000 stock) So I'm fine with that. Now at 107 lobe center the engine was good on the bottom at part throttle but was flat from 6K to 8K at WOT. So I advance the exhaust cam to 109. It flaten up the power curve big time. The mid range is a bit better but not by that much. But the power is flat and linear all the way from 5K to 12K. Now my next step is retard the exhaust cam and get back that top end rush without having the flat from 6-8K. Hopefully it will work.

There's not exact science, the guide line are there. Just need to try it and actually find the sweet spot!

Since no one seams to know the exact numbers for the FZ6... it's hard to know where to go when your not sure where you're at?

 

[fazil]

That ring is for the cylinder identification sensor. It tells the ECU when the cam is in position for TDC for either the combustion stoke or the exhaust stroke of cylinder #1. The FZ6 doesn't need that sensor as it simply fires the spark plugs and triggers the fuel injectors for 1-4 and 2-3 every 180°

Very important info!

Is that means all the extra torque and hp curve that R6 has, is because of that variable cam timing ring ?

Can it be activated on a fz6 ecu?

 

[FinalImpact]

Hey Marthy and "everyone else", I've been at bit preoccupied to dig in to this like I'd wished too as I'd love to compare them (all three)
Anyway, Marthy who rides a R is posting good content! Thanks man!


As you test your 'R' where is the ignition timing set? And how are you checking it? Better yet, do you have pictures of your degree wheels set while setting the CAM timing on this and I'd bet there are many here who haven't seen such things!

Do you care to show how you tension the timing chain to get results? This is a case in point where you DO NOT want to turn the engine backwards or the indicated value from a degree wheel would be lie!

Thanks for sharing. . .

 

[FinalImpact]

That ring is for the cylinder identification sensor. It tells the ECU when the cam is in position for TDC for either the combustion stoke or the exhaust stroke of cylinder #1. The FZ6 doesn't need that sensor as it simply fires the spark plugs and triggers the fuel injectors for 1-4 and 2-3 every 180°

Question; does the ring with the ARROW, have magnets in it as it "looks like" it goes 360 degrees solid with no breaks so how could a sensor trigger from it?

Am I missing something?

 

[fazil]

I bougt R6S cam shafts yesterday from ebay Uk for a very cheap price.


Journal caps were included in the auction but i didn't want them because of postage weight. (Less than 2kg is cheap for postage and the cams weight nearly 2kg as seller told me)
Do i need those caps?

And an other question about the extra ring on R6 cam. Is there a chance to add that cylinder identification sensor to Fz6? If Fz6 ecu is similar to R6, may be...
And what would be the gain?

 

[FinalImpact]

I'm not the one to ask about the ring, but the caps are machined to your head. I would NOT recommend using the supplied caps on your heads as the oil clearances and fit will not be the same.

So does that RING go 360 degrees? Is there anything in it like a magnet, a hole, a cut out? I'm gonna say no, you don't stand prayer on the ECM but anything is possible if you want it bad enough.

 

[fazil]

An other info about cam lobes


FZ6 Sevice manual:




R6S Service manual:




And this picture shows the differences of Cam Head covers:

 

[SweaterDude]

another thing you might have failed to notice is those two rings on the other R6S cam (the one on the top in fazil's purchase pic). the sections between the lobes on both of the FZ cams are smooth. looks to me like using the R6S cams, the R6S cam cover and, possibly a R6S ECU would be the full monte.

 

[FinalImpact]

another thing you might have failed to notice is those two rings on the other R6S cam (the one on the top in fazil's purchase pic). the sections between the lobes on both of the FZ cams are smooth. looks to me like using the R6S cams, the R6S cam cover and, possibly a R6S ECU would be the full monte.

True - fully machined to keep the weight down. Likely not castings either. . .

I did the math on the lift between the Fiz and the R6S.


FZ6 from manual:
Intake 32.450–32.550 mm (1.2776–1.2815 in) lobe A
Intake 24.950–25.050 mm (0.9823–0.9862 in) base B
=======================
Intake Lift: 7.5mm (0.295 in)


Exhaust 32.450–32.550 mm (1.2776–1.2815 in) lobe A
Exhaust 24.950–25.050 mm (0.9823–0.9862 in) base B
=======================
Exhaust Lift: 7.5mm (0.295 in)


R6S from manual:
Intake:
33.45 (1.317 in) lobe A
25.12 (0.989) base B
=======================
Intake Lift: 8.33mm (0.327 in)

Exhaust:
32.55 (1.282 in) lobe A
25.07 (0.987 in) base B
=======================
Exhaust Lift: 7.48mm (0.294 in)

As promise, here's the number I have for the 04 FZ6 cams.

IVO: 45 BTDC (6 @ 1mm)
IVC: 78 ABDC (35 @ 1mm)
ILC: 104.5
Intake Lift: 7.5mm (0.295 in)

(180+6+35) /2 -6=104.5 degree

EVO: 60 BBDC (40 @ 1mm)
EVC: 27 ATDC (5 @ 1mm)
ELC: 107.5 degree
Exhaust Lift: 7.5mm (0.295 in)


I do not remember the total lift of the cams. But that can be found in the FZ6 manual. (max lobe measurement - base circle)

Hope it help. Those number could be a snug different on the FZ6... that's what I was hoping to find also. Since those are about the same numbers as the 07 R6. My educated guess would be to compare the FZ6 and R6 cam gears. Maybe the only difference is the way the cams are timed. You will be amaze what 1 or 2 degree does. (.006" slot in the cam gear is about 1 degree... give and take)

So, you might wanna check the coils on the intake and make certain you don't stalk them and bend a valve when it sees the the rev limiter! Do the springs have the same rates, installed heights, are the keepers or spring retainers different to handle the RPMs? I never looked!