Burning through front wheel bearings

[rtw]

Hi,

2006 with 20k miles. Bought used about 5k miles ago. This bike has been down, but I have it restored to what seems like perfect working order (and appearance).

I just put in my 3rd right-side front bearing in 5k miles. I know they go bad when they start popping. When taken out, the bracket holding the balls is destroyed.

The receptacle for the bearing is not in perfect shape (a few scratches) but it seems plenty good enough. I installed them myself (tried both OEM and All-Balls).

Any ideas on what to look for as a cause?

Thanks

RTW

 

[greg]

are you over-tightening the spindle?

 

[FinalImpact]

Is the inner spacer between the bearings in the wheel still (a long hollow tube #2)?

If so, are you pushing the bearings in by the OUTER RACE? Pushing on the inner race will cause damage. PS - replace them as a pair and USE the OLD bearing outer race to push in the New Bearing.

See item # 2 and 2X item # 8.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

+1 ^^^

That part BTW, your referrring to, is the "bearing cage" that holds the bearings apart.

 

[2old2ride]

Forget the Yamaha Lithium based chicken fat. I use Union Carbide Unoba EP-2. It is a schedule 4 grease and is the civilian version of what the US Army uses on it's tanks, SP artillery AND any tracked artic vehicles.
A grease that stays grease at 100 below zero and still lubricates a 60 ton vehicle is sorta overkill for a 450ish pound motorcycle but I'm an American. We struggle with the concept of overkill. :Flip:

Find you a good schedule 3 or 4 grease and use that when you replace the bearings.The price difference between Yamaha's chicken fat and real grease won't buy you a beer at the local poser hangout.

Selecting grease

Notice the part about shock loading. MY theory on why the FZ-6 has stem bearing issuea and the R6, using the same set up, doesn't, is based on shock loading. The R6 has a better front suspension and the shock of the front coming back down after a wheelie was not considered by the engineers. The R6 suspension asorbs that shock better. The energy has to go someplace. With our Fazer Part of it is absorbed by the bearing AND the grease they are packed in. The Engineers at Yamaha listened to their Mom when she told them not to wheelie. I lot of us didn't.
That's my theory and I'm sticking to it until a better one comes along.

 

[FinalImpact]

Forget the Yamaha Lithium based chicken fat. I use Union Carbide Unoba EP-2. It is a schedule 4 grease and is the civilian version of what the US Army uses on it's tanks, SP artillery AND any tracked artic vehicles.
A grease that stays grease at 100 below zero and still lubricates a 60 ton vehicle is sorta overkill for a 450ish pound motorcycle but I'm an American. We struggle with the concept of overkill. :Flip:

Find you a good schedule 3 or 4 grease and use that when you replace the bearings.The price difference between Yamaha's chicken fat and real grease won't buy you a beer at the local poser hangout.

Selecting grease

Notice the part about shock loading. MY theory on why the FZ-6 has stem bearing issuea and the R6, using the same set up, doesn't, is based on shock loading. The R6 has a better front suspension and the shock of the front coming back down after a wheelie was not considered by the engineers. The R6 suspension asorbs that shock better. The energy has to go someplace. With our Fazer Part of it is absorbed by the bearing AND the grease they are packed in. The Engineers at Yamaha listened to their Mom when she told them not to wheelie. I lot of us didn't.
That's my theory and I'm sticking to it until a better one comes along.

Uhm - they come pregreased! Anything extra is just for your benefit! To keep the dust out....

 

[2old2ride]

Uhm - they come pregreased! Anything extra is just for your benefit! To keep the dust out....

Actually, no. That is just a light coat to keep the bearings from rusting and such while in storage. Put them in like that and you will be replacing them a couple of times a year.
Bearings are manufactured in lots of millions. That is so the unit cost gets low enough to make a profit. My 'All Balls' stem bearing kit costs about $35 US. They got there by manufacturing a kit that fits (almost) a whole bunch of different bikes. So them can make a few million and get the cost down to where they can sell one to me for $35 and make a profit. That bearing kit might have been sitting on the shelf in a warehouse for years before I hammered it in. So it needs more protection then a scrap of wax paper.
I'm an old man and youse kids consider me senile but look on YouTube. Ask any mechanic. You have to put more grease on bearings before putting them on. Go ahead, get your hands dirty. Your mom won't know if you don't tell her and wash up after. Washing your hands, like more grease, is never a bad idea.Blah

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Finalimpact is talking about WHEEL BEARINGS, your talking about steering stem bearings, two completly different things.

The Op's issue is about ft wheel bearings failing, which do come lubed in wheel grease. His issue is likely no spacer in the middle. He's literally tightening down the internal part of his wheel bearings pulling them apart, thus the cage failure.

 

[04fizzer]

I would try a couple things:

1) make sure your steering is straight, and the forks aren't twisted, putting unnecessary stress on the bearings. You said the bike has been down, so it's possible that things are off. Replacing the bearings is only treating the symptom at this point rather than the cause.

2) I'd replace the bearings as a set, both left and right, rather than just the one.

3) I'd try cleaning up the counterbore where the bearings sit with a fine sandpaper just to make sure there aren't any burrs, to make sure the bearings are sitting square.

 

[FinalImpact]

Actually, no. That is just a light coat to keep the bearings from rusting and such while in storage. Put them in like that and you will be replacing them a couple of times a year.
Bearings are manufactured in lots of millions. That is so the unit cost gets low enough to make a profit. My 'All Balls' stem bearing kit costs about $35 US. They got there by manufacturing a kit that fits (almost) a whole bunch of different bikes. So them can make a few million and get the cost down to where they can sell one to me for $35 and make a profit. That bearing kit might have been sitting on the shelf in a warehouse for years before I hammered it in. So it needs more protection then a scrap of wax paper.
I'm an old man and youse kids consider me senile but look on YouTube. Ask any mechanic. You have to put more grease on bearings before putting them on. Go ahead, get your hands dirty. Your mom won't know if you don't tell her and wash up after. Washing your hands, like more grease, is never a bad idea.Blah

2old2POST, (--> J/K) Blah
The topic of discussion is a sealed ball bearing supporting the front wheel. Perhaps an oversight? Yes a film of oil/grease prevents rust but, but beyond that, the factory installed seals should not be removed from the bearings as most often it will damage them, and actually let the grease out which leads to failure.
In this case, the low speed high pressure lube is not applicable to the wheel bearing while it would be fine at the steering stem bearings.

PN: 93306-00420-00
https://www.google.com/search?q=933...MNGqyAS-z4J4&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAw&biw=1005&bih=611

OP - I think you need the bold items....
Item . . . PN - - - -- - - - Discription
1 5SL-25168-00-98, CAST WHEEL, FRONT LGB
2 4XV-25117-00-00, SPACER, BEARING $14.63 1
3 93306-00420-00, BEARING $0.00 $0.00 2
4 93106-28043-00, OIL SEAL $4.79 2
8 90387-22002-00, COLLAR $0.00 $0.00 2
9 4XV-25181-10-00, AXLE, WHEEL $30.31 1

 

[FinalImpact]

I would try a couple things:

3) I'd try cleaning up the counterbore where the bearings sit with a fine sandpaper just to make sure there aren't any burrs, to make sure the bearings are sitting square.

^^ Good Point, but be careful removing material.

If we assume the bearing spacer is there another issue that could cause fault would be the bearings NOT SEATING IN THE WHEEL TO PROPER DEPTH. If this happens and the axle is secure to factory torque spec, it would impose a dramatic side load on the bearings causing them to fail.

Can you tell us how (what process or tools) you used to install the bearings?

Hammer, brass drift, long bolt, press????

 

[04fizzer]

^^ Good Point, but be careful removing material.

If we assume the bearing spacer is there another issue that could cause fault would be the bearings NOT SEATING IN THE WHEEL TO PROPER DEPTH. If this happens and the axle is secure to factory torque spec, it would impose a dramatic side load on the bearings causing them to fail.

Can you tell us how (what process or tools) you used to install the bearings?

Hammer, brass drift, long bolt, press????

That's why I suggested fine sand paper. Maybe I should have said ultrafine, in the 600-800 grit range, or even some 000-0000 steel wool.

 

[FinalImpact]

That's why I suggested fine sand paper. Maybe I should have said ultrafine, in the 600-800 grit range, or even some 000-0000 steel wool.

I recall using a punch to knock out a bearing one time and defaced the inner landing when the punch slid (it had two slots to access the bearing for removal). I used a punch and hammer to move the metal back leaving it lower than the surrounding surface so the bearing would seat flat.

The benefit here is you can be very precise if you have some different punch diameters to choose from. Its effective on aluminum and steel to some extent.

 

[vettrick]

I'm wondering if the counter bore on some wheels isn't too tight.
The last set of bearings I installed went in really tight. I thought maybe too tight. Time will tell.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Any updates RTW????

 

[FIZZER6]

I agree this wheel bearing failure is a hardware issue. Something isn't right, they should last 50K miles easily.

 

[rtw]

Any updates RTW????

I took out the right side bearings. They we very tight to get out. All the parts are intact.

The receptacle for the bearing was pretty beat up. Dents, scratches. So I cleaned it up some and did some fine sanding. The bearing went in more easily, with just a few taps. I use a large socket to restrict the force to the outer race.

Everything seems fine. But I did notice that the inner sleeve has just a little bit of back and forth play after the bearings were in. Not much play, about 0.5mm. I was wondering if the sleeve should be snug up against the inner races in order to take the full side load. Not sure.

Let's see how it goes for a few thousand miles. Maybe it will hold up.

Thanks all.

RTW

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I took out the right side bearings. They we very tight to get out. All the parts are intact.

The receptacle for the bearing was pretty beat up. Dents, scratches. So I cleaned it up some and did some fine sanding. The bearing went in more easily, with just a few taps. I use a large socket to restrict the force to the outer race.

Everything seems fine. But I did notice that the inner sleeve has just a little bit of back and forth play after the bearings were in. Not much play, about 0.5mm. I was wondering if the sleeve should be snug up against the inner races in order to take the full side load. Not sure.

Let's see how it goes for a few thousand miles. Maybe it will hold up.

Thanks all.

RTW

Thanks.

That sleeve should fit tight with the axle tightened down WITHOUT pulling the inner part of the bearings in.

Really all that could do that is the bearings aren't fully seated (you should be able to hear a solid thud when at the end of the install). Obviosly the outside edge where the bearing goes in should be smooth.

Make sure the actual SEAT of where the bearing fnally rests, is smooth, nothing (no aluminum/crap) has been pushed down there and possibly imbeded there. That alone would keep the bearings from fully seating and that .5mm space.

I assume your making sure you DO NOT put any pressure on the inner part of the bearing while installing, ONLY the OUTSIDE.

That center spacer shouldn't wear, etc. Did it appear as thou any messed with it?

 

[rtw]

Thanks.

I assume your making sure you DO NOT put any pressure on the inner part of the bearing while installing, ONLY the OUTSIDE.

That center spacer shouldn't wear, etc. Did it appear as thou any messed with it?

Definitely. I press the bearings in using pressure only on the outside race of the bearing.

When I ripped through my first bearing, I let it go on too long, and it chewed up one end of the inner sleeve. I replaced it with the OEM part. Should be in perfect condition.

Thanks.

Ross