Brake Issues

[Kriswithak]

So I got my FZ6 in for its 10k service (did the 5k one myself since it was reasonably simple) and while some things seem much better I've found a few issues.

The first is that occasionally it doesn't want to change gears since the service. This has only happened a few times however.

The major one is the front brakes which always had good grip and now feel unresponsive, and don't have any bite.
Its been very wet lately, which i thought may be the first issue, but they also make horrible squeaking noises as I come to a stop, and I'm having trouble telling if its the actual brakes, or something they messed up with the front suspension. Obviously I can't brake hard on the front end since basically there is no such thing as hard braking anymore which worries me, but as I come to a stop they squeal loudly.
I am wondering whether some idiot apprentice got happy spraying something near my front discs/pads and it may be causing problems, because something drastically changed!

I am probably going to take them off and take a look, and maybe replace them if I can't clean them, but I'm honestly wondering what exactly happened at the service. Either they sprayed something which is making them not grip properly, or they took it for a ride and burnt out the pads.

I'm going to check the brake fluid level as well before I head to work today, and I noticed the rear container is at the full line, but its normally dark and at work when I remember to check the front.
I also noticed they lost the little rubber cover that goes over the bleeding connection on the brakes which really annoyed me too.

I'm going to check the oil as well tonight, just to make sure its the motul 7100 which is easily recogniseable for its colour. If its not then I'm not going to be too happy!~

Anyone have any ideas about the brakes tho?

 

[Wolfman]

So I got my FZ6 in for its 10k service (did the 5k one myself since it was reasonably simple) and while some things seem much better I've found a few issues.

The first is that occasionally it doesn't want to change gears since the service. This has only happened a few times however.

The major one is the front brakes which always had good grip and now feel unresponsive, and don't have any bite.
Its been very wet lately, which i thought may be the first issue, but they also make horrible squeaking noises as I come to a stop, and I'm having trouble telling if its the actual brakes, or something they messed up with the front suspension. Obviously I can't brake hard on the front end since basically there is no such thing as hard braking anymore which worries me, but as I come to a stop they squeal loudly.
I am wondering whether some idiot apprentice got happy spraying something near my front discs/pads and it may be causing problems, because something drastically changed!

I am probably going to take them off and take a look, and maybe replace them if I can't clean them, but I'm honestly wondering what exactly happened at the service. Either they sprayed something which is making them not grip properly, or they took it for a ride and burnt out the pads.

I'm going to check the brake fluid level as well before I head to work today, and I noticed the rear container is at the full line, but its normally dark and at work when I remember to check the front.
I also noticed they lost the little rubber cover that goes over the bleeding connection on the brakes which really annoyed me too.

I'm going to check the oil as well tonight, just to make sure its the motul 7100 which is easily recogniseable for its colour. If its not then I'm not going to be too happy!~

Anyone have any ideas about the brakes tho?

I am sitting here reading this and i am thinking, i have heard this story before....freaking dealership's and their shoddy workmanship, and outright lying to customers!

I have got a bike back with Spongy, crappy brakes before...turns out the apprentice bled them...and fcucked them! took 5 minutes to fix....but i should not of had too!

Have been told that they have put 7100 in my bike before, was suspicious at the time, so i checked...was that evil Yamalube Pus!

Soon as your warranty is up Kris, Get the hell away from the dealerships buddy, get to a decent mechanic, that is more worried about fixing your bike, than the punks who work at the dealerships, and are more interested in watching the new Crusty Demons video that is playing in the shop, than fixing your bike properly...

And being an FZ6 owner, you are on a hiding to nothing....cause your not riding a super cool R1, R6, WR450, etc....

I am sure the attitude is, "it's only a commuter bike, it dont matter none!!!"

I think you touched a raw nerve with me on this issue...Some of these mechanics should not be working on anything with an engine, they are a danger to the people who's bikes they work on!

Phew, i think i need another nap, and another Bex or 2!!!

 

[Kriswithak]

Haha, I only go there because the head mechanic is a friend of my dads who gets us a good price, but there is always niggling issues!
That being said the good mechanics I used to have are gone and its super hard to find a replacement!

What really annoyed me when i dropped the bike in was that they apparently didn't remember I was booked in, didn't bother to even try and make conversation, and basically showed no interest at all. That being said the friend didn't start working till 30mins before I picked up the bike and he was very friendly and helpful, but even he commented that there is almost no bike interest from the employees, and its a damn bike shop!

 

[Bikebiz]

That's a disgrace. Hope you get it sorted. The squeaking is a worry, I'm assuming that you know all the quick things to try such as contact cleaner, scuff the pads on your driveway (or emery paper), etc?

 

[OZXJR]

Bloody bike shops,they are the reasons that Haynes manuals exist !

I had the brake squeal problem once,found it was dust and crap from wet weather riding behind the pads.I put some anti-squeal paste on the back of the pad and the front of the piston and it fixed the problem.

 

[Ridgeback]

The only person I trust with Brakes,bearings etc,is me.
The grease monkey isn't the one who's going to end up in A&E if he does a half arsed job.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

That's a disgrace. Hope you get it sorted. The squeaking is a worry, I'm assuming that you know all the quick things to try such as contact cleaner, scuff the pads on your driveway (or emery paper), etc?

+! on the above but I'd use brake cleaner, also on the disc's themselves...

You may need to re-bleed them if they still don't work as before...

 

[Bikebiz]

Yep on the discs.

The squealing is because the pads are vibrating. So there's the anti-squeal paste behind them (between pads and pistons) or bending the retainer springs so they push harder against the pads.

Both very annoying solutions which you shouldn't have to do......

I prefer doing as much of the maintenance as I can myself and just get the shop to do the valves and throttle sync that I haven't learnt how to yet.

 

[ozzieboy]

Yup, could be something on the disc or something caught between disc and pad. I occasionally get Innox on mine from my cleaning, and they are spongey for a little while. I generally feather the breaks for 20 seconds or so, then break really hard, which doesn't pull me up fast but generates the heat that burns it off (too much can glaze the disc though). After that they are sweet again (cleans them up nicely..lol). The other thing that makes them squeal is a change of alignment of the front end (ie. if the fork height is adjusted in the clamps and they change height with reference to each other.) This will put the edge of one of the pads on the disc firmly, while the rest is not pressed in as hard, so it can vibrate and sing while it wears in to it's new pozzie. For this to be that noticable there should be an obvious difference in the height of the forks in the top clamps. This happened with Wolfman's bike after his cherry picking close encounter, and my FZ1 had been pulled apart to clean and re-assembled before I bought it, and they'd done the same thing there. Why the heck the fork height should have changed from a service I'll never know, but it's worth a check.

As for the not going into gear.....How tight is the chain? They always used to adjust mine way too tight. Every time I hit a bump I could hear the thing pull tight against the sprockets.

I haven't had any of these issues with my FZ1 after I got it home. It's not under warranty, so they don't touch it.....and what do ya know....my chain is well adjusted. My bike only has Motul in it....etc...etc.

 

[Kriswithak]

Hmm some very good points there.
I adjusted my chain a while back and it was good from then, because it seemed extremely loose, I will definately check that though!
Looking at the fluid level in the master cylinder was a mystery, when I left home it was full, when i got home it had a giant air bubble showing in about the top 80% of the viewing glass..... wondering whether maybe the lack of feel could be air bubbles in the fluid.
It still squeaks, but its only as you come to an actual stop, and I noticed alot of grey-ish crud actually on my discs. If its sunny or I go for a ride tomorrow I'll wash the bike, and give the discs and pads a good hose, then wipe down the discs with a clean rag. If that doesn't work I'll go for the anti squeal/brake cleaning options since I don't have any on hand!
I've also tried feathering the brake with hard braking, and it only seemed to make it worse, which was really strange since I thought the opposite should happen!!!!

They where also meant to check all the steering head bearings this service, so maybe they moved the fork height in the clamps when doing that.... not really sure what that entails though

I also thought it way be one of the sides of the suspension failing, but at a stop I pushed down hard into the front suspension and there was no sound, and rebound.

Also what do you guys consider the optimum tyre pressure, the service guy said something like 38/40 front/rear which seemed extremely extremely high from what I've read, especially since I'm only about 65-70kg. I thought the manual was something more in the region of like 33 ish with rear being a little higher than front, maybe 30/34? Can't remember off the top of my head but was keeping it to what the manual said.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

If you got greyish crud on the disc's, its probably also on the pads. Wether its oil/grease/brake fluid, it should be clean (brake dust is not unusual and is normal).

Its easy to pull the pads, two small clips and one larger (runs horizontal across the pads). Remove the SS spring retainer (there's an arrow that points forward) remove the pin, the pads come out. I would strongly recommend brake cleaner...

Pay attention to the area around the brake pistons for any fluid leakage which would indicate leaky brake caliber seals.

**BTW, when the pads are out, DO NOT SQUEEZE the brake lever...

Also, if they checked the steering head bearings (not just adjust) they would have removed both the upper and lower steering triple trees (to see both the upper and lower bearings) which would also include removing the forks, front wheel, brake calibers, etc. You may gotten the crud on the disc's while they had the entire front end off.

 

[Kriswithak]

I replaced the old pads on my zeal when I had that which wasn't hard, althought it was fidgety! +1 on not squeezing the lever
I'm also not sure if they actually checked the stearing bearings, it was just on the list of things done for the service

Hope its sunny tomorrow so I can do a few things to the bike. This rain is pissing me off! In the damn carpark at work riding over any of the white lines or arrows I can actually feel the back wheel slipping slightly, its really unnerving.

 

[ozzieboy]

For tire pressures I run 32/36.5 summer and 34/38 winter.

Sounds like they may have moved the forks in the clamps. Just have a look at the top of the forks and how much is showing above the top clamp and compare. If they are visibly not the same, you might want to take it back there. If you can't see a difference, it could still be the same problem but it's probably not worth taking back. The squealing will go away I'm tipping.

 

[Kriswithak]

Checked and no difference, and I honestly don't think they checked them (the bearings).
Interestingly the rear disc has rusted up a little as I hadn't ridden in a few days, but the fronts didn't, so I'm pretty sure they must have gotten something onto the front discs that is screwing up the braking. I cleaned the discs and it got better, but by the end of the ride was back to being total crap.
Sadly haven't had time because of work to take the pads off and try and clean or replace them, but I haven't been riding either.

The bike still feels like it steers/leans to one side a little, but the rear tire was at 40psi, and I let it down to 36, fronts at 32/33.
Had a nice ride after washing the bike and cleaning the discs last night, was actually dry!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

You can check the steering head bearing pre-load by getting the front end off the ground (center stand and either a helper lean on the back of the seat or a sizzor jack under the header). Push/pull the forks feeling for any play. Also while turning check for any binding. If their loose they can be tightened up however check for binding, their too tight.

The shop may have checked (as stated above) the bearings without dis-asembling/re-greasing.

The FZ is known to not have much grease if any in the head bearings. Most of the time, the guys are replacing them as the stockers are rusted out (lack of grease from the factory)

 

[bogdani0405]

Hi,

Quick question, did you change the brake fluid?

The brake pads, if they are the original ones, they should squeak a little when you lightly press the break lever, when you press harder they shouldn't do the noise. Usually the brakes are not that potent when you change the pads, did they do that, did they change your pads?

About the gear change, it must be the oil. They probably put Yamalube, change it to Motul and most likely you won't have that problem.

Asfalt uscat

 

[rpereira]

So I take it that Yamalube is not the way to go and stick with Motul suff then ?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I prefer Motul 5100 semi synthetic along with a K&N filter (has the nut)..

 

[ozzieboy]

In my FZ6 the Yamalube was toast after around 1500km/1000mi-ish. It squirted out when the sump plug was removed, so I nearly had to put the pan in the neighbours yard to catch it. It felt like water.

After 7000km/4500mi-ish the Motul 5100 comes out fine. Still feels like oil, and just starting to get notchy on changes, so if you change at 5000km/3000mi-ish, it is still working fine. I usually did mine at 3000km/2000mi but only 'cause I wanted to.