BMW F800ST vs. FZ6

[ronNoc]

Hi all,

I've been trying to figure out what my next bike is going to be after learning on my Kawi Ninja 500. I want/need a daily commuter that can lane split like a champ and also tour when I want to ride out of LA up to Seattle, the Grand Canyon, etc. Fuel economy is important, too.

At the moment I'm in a deadlock between the BMW F800ST and the FZ6. My pro's and con's follow:

FZ6 pros:
- great price
- outstanding reliability (this bike appears to be mostly free of mech. issues)
- good instrumentation
- good ergos
- good hard case options
- good lane-splitter
- good fuel economy
- larger fuel capacity (5.1 gal.)

FZ6 cons:
- engine has been described as 'peaky' (which is cool- just not what I need)
- regular chain (not yet using maintenance-free belt drives)

BMW F800ST pros:
- Torquey 800cc parallel twin
- gotta love the carefree belt drive
- less on insurance than the FZ6
- good instrumentation
- good ergos
- good hard case options
- good lane-splitter
- amazing fuel economy (5-10mpg better then FZ6 - not much difference)

BMW F800ST cons:
- much more expensive
- read about some reliability issues in f800riders.org
- has alot of stuff I don't want/need (onboard computer and such)
- I don't really want ABS (and certainly don't want to pay for it)
- smaller fuel capacity (4.1 gal.)

So basically it comes down to three things: reliability, the engines of the bikes, and the price. If you guys are happy with the way the FZ6 performs when stopped at Santa Monica and La Cienaga, trying to push past the Ferrari's and Ducati's or when you're on the freeway and have to get by the a**hole who keeps squeezing into your lane then let me know.

For city riding I want something that has good torque in the low to mid range and I want to know if you guys are happy with the remapping of the FZ6, especially in the '07- models (because those are the ones I'd be looking to buy). I suppose this is my biggest question-mark with the FZ6: can the engine pull enough to my satisfaction in the low to mid range? It I was satisfied with that, then I would go ahead and opt for the FZ6 in a heartbeat.

Thanks for your help!

 

[dankatz]

Welcome to the board! Since I just upgraded from a Ninja 500 to an FZ6 let me put in my comments.
The FZ6 certainly has a lot more power at the top end, but coming off a Ninja 500 is it better in the city where its low-mid range is fine. It is probably much worse then the larger engine BMW in the city, but if you are comparing to the Ninja it is better. The inline 4 is very smooth and even if you are in low rpm it will pull nicely.
Price, the FZ6 is 50% cheaper - I got mine OTD for $6600 (i.e. bike cost $6055, so I pay tax on $6055. All other fees excluding taxes brought it up to $6600). With the BMW, you don't have to buy the ABS and trip computer. Myself, I would opt for both. ABS is a god send, but we don't quite appreciate it in the US. I was choosing between the FZ6 and the Suzuki GSX650F and decided on the FZ6 because it is lighter and would probably be better for the city where most of my riding is.
Any of those three bikes would be much better than the Ninja 500 - our Ninja was a great bike, but the technology is 20 years old.
Good luck with your choices. I would say go test ride the BMW and see if you can find somebody who would let you ride their FZ6. Lastly, given the choice, I would get the BMW with the heated grips, trip computer and ABS. But, it is hard to ignore such a huge difference in price and thousands of people in Europe have built the FZ6/Fazer quite the reputation.
Dani

 

[yukon_alex]

Wow! Good choices. In fact, the same choices I was looking at 3 months ago. I bought the FZ based strictly on the money factor. Here in Canada the difference was about $6000. That's a lot of money for fuel and insurance.

I think the only way to know which is best is to ride them both. Preferably on the same day. I suspect that for the riding you do you will like the BMW best. You might even find it similar to your EX500 but with more of everything.

From what I have read, the FZ is not so much peaky as it is really strong on top. This seems to make people think that it hasn't got much on the low end. Of course on a bike that redlines at 14,000 its "midrange" RPM is a bit higher than a bike that redlines at 8,500. I have been riding my father's R1150RT and it is graced with a decent low/mid range torque. Do I think it will be able to pull away from the FZ? Nah! But it will be fun to watch him try.

 

[HavBlue]

I suppose this is my biggest question-mark with the FZ6: can the engine pull enough to my satisfaction in the low to mid range? It I was satisfied with that, then I would go ahead and opt for the FZ6 in a heartbeat.

The answer is simple, if you go around trying to keep the FZ6 in say 4th or 5th gear at 50mph like you would that twin then no. However, if you keep it in 3rd or maybe 4th at that same speed the 800 twin will seem pale by comparison. To me the two bikes are like comparing apples and oranges because they are totally different.

If you read this article you'll find the rider's average fuel economy was 46mpg which is no better than the FZ6. You'll also find the bike tested was 12,000+ and you can buy all sorts of gas and goodies for $5,000. The 800ST only carries 4.1 gallons of fuel which means the FZ6 which go farther in terms of range as it carries 5.1 gallons.

2007 BMW F800ST

 

[DefyInertia]

I can see how you've narrowed it down to these two...they will both do what you're looking for them to do, and well. All I can say is that the FZ6 is fast! You may have to rev it a little bit but the bike goes.

 

[ronNoc]

I've ridden the F800ST - a lovely ride: really enjoyed it. I've also ridden a 2005 FZ6, but I didn't get to really get out of 2nd due to dealer restrictions. I'll be trying out that bike again (it's for sale at a local dealer) but this time I'll take it for a little unexpected workout to see how it performs. What do you guys have to say about the difference in the ride between 2005 FZ6s and '07 + models? Are they the same ride or is it a different experience?

As for the comparison, based on what I've read it sounds like it's more a matter of how you ride to get the most out of the respective bikes... just a matter of learning how to do it correctly. HavBlue's comment about keeping the bike in 3rd or 4th makes a lot of sense. As was said, $5,000 buys a lot of gas and goodies, plus the fuel economy is perhaps not dramatically different, if at all. With equivalent fuel economy, I really prefer the 5.1 gallon tank of the FZ6.

While belt drive is nice, I've been dealing with chains and it's not a big deal thanks to the FZ6's standard centerstand.

With the money I'd save on the FZ6 I could get my Givi side and top cases, 2 Bros slip-on exhaust, new windshield, and lord knows what else & still pay thousands less! I'm already beginning to dream about all the juicy mods possible.

This decision might not be as difficult as it seemed a while ago...

 

[paulman]

I came off a year of riding an 07 ninja 500 before buying my fz6 a few months ago and am totally satisfied with the power of this bike throughout its power band. Trust me coming off the 500 too this bike it will feel plenty fast in the low RPMs. Much less shifting too stay in the bikes power band then the 500. Cruising on the highway in sixth gear there is plenty of passing power unlike on the ninja where you have too downshift to 4th. Ride the fz and if you like the feel you should buy it, you wont regret it.

 

[Gcontroller]

I have a 06 FZ6 had a 91 EX err Ninja 500 before that. I have to say the little Ninja with a jet kit and a Muzzy was a really good engine. Plenty of torque at low to mid range speeds.

My FZ6 is so much smoother then the Ninja 500 was at almost any RMP. But one thing that really stands out in my mind is just how much more stable my FZ6 is then the Ninja 500. This stability really shows it's self on windy days. It's also much more comfortable. I am only 5' 8" but when riding both bikes back to back I can really tell just how much more scrunched up I am on the Ninja 500.

Fuel mileage is actually better on my FZ6 when compared to my Jetted and piped Ninja 500 as well. I average 50 mpg on the FZ6.

Don't know much about the Beemer 800 but I'll tell you the FZ6 is a damm good bike that hauls the mail when needed. For me it's the best bike you can buy at this price point.

 

[VEGASRIDER]

Here in Vegas, the local BMW dealership is having an open house on the 3rd of May, a bi-annual event. It's a full blown sale on gear and they have demo bikes. Various vendors also on site showing off their goods. Free food and drinks. You may want to check out your local BMW bike dealership and see if they have a similar event. Personally, I would opt for the FZ6, people have gotten their new bikes for $6500 OTD. Can't beat the price. Buy it, try it, don't like it, sell it. But you will probably love it.

 

[HavBlue]

I've ridden the F800ST - a lovely ride: really enjoyed it. I've also ridden a 2005 FZ6, but I didn't get to really get out of 2nd due to dealer restrictions. I'll be trying out that bike again (it's for sale at a local dealer) but this time I'll take it for a little unexpected workout to see how it performs. What do you guys have to say about the difference in the ride between 2005 FZ6s and '07 + models? Are they the same ride or is it a different experience?

As for the comparison, based on what I've read it sounds like it's more a matter of how you ride to get the most out of the respective bikes... just a matter of learning how to do it correctly. HavBlue's comment about keeping the bike in 3rd or 4th makes a lot of sense. As was said, $5,000 buys a lot of gas and goodies, plus the fuel economy is perhaps not dramatically different, if at all. With equivalent fuel economy, I really prefer the 5.1 gallon tank of the FZ6.

While belt drive is nice, I've been dealing with chains and it's not a big deal thanks to the FZ6's standard centerstand.

With the money I'd save on the FZ6 I could get my Givi side and top cases, 2 Bros slip-on exhaust, new windshield, and lord knows what else & still pay thousands less! I'm already beginning to dream about all the juicy mods possible.

This decision might not be as difficult as it seemed a while ago...

My Sporty is belt drive as is the Roadstar and the maintenance is clearly a plus but the associated costs in terms of replacement are about the same as a chain and sprocket set. I see you have picked up on the $5K that could be spent on some nice hard cases too. The FZ6 is a very diverse machine but the rider must remember it has enough of the R6 heritage in it that keeping it at the ready in terms of RPM is a must if one is to gather an understanding of its potential. To me the answer to this is gearing and if the rider allows it to drop below 5,000rpm then don't expect much without tapping it down one or two cogs. At that point launch mode is available.

Good luck,
Charlie

 

[rockmurf]

You mentioned quirkiness on the pre 07's fz6. I think you are confused with the fz1. The fz6 has no quirkiness. I can't believe the fz6 is more for insurance and if so not much and I suggest shop around because I pay less than $100 for the year. Also the fz6 runs on reg. gas and I believe all bmw's are premium. I put 20k miles on my 04 fz6 in the last 18 months and I think it is a fantastic bike, probably a best bike overall. You probably will need a better seat but from there on it is farkle to your particular liking... Another thing is the dealer network. Yamahas are all over and bmw is not. Part availability if needed, more likely on the bmw than the yammy is also something to consider. Chain maintenance is not a big deal and it also gives you flexibility, ref. to changing out sprockets to fine tune the power to where you need/want it. If you ride you will want a yammy. Good luck and ride safe.

 

[CrazyBiker]

It is also about how you use the powerband. The BMW maybe lean below 2000 rpm but then that translates to 5000 rpm on the FZ6. A 14K redline is a lot of power range to play with. If you want more punch lower end you can also put a 15T front sprocket.

 

[HowFast]

I have riden the F800ST and compared it to the FZ6 extensively.

The biggest issue I have is electrical output. The FZ6 has just enough juice to keep the bike running in stock configuration. Even double wiring the headlamps will drain the battery, never mind heated grips, aftermarket lights, or other high-draw accessories. BMWs have plenty of extra watts to run your widgets and keep you warm.

I know that's a high price to pay for electricity, but if you live in a cold place, or appreciate the value of good lighting, you will understand my issue.

Otherwise, with Givi V35 cases, the FZ6 is ideal for me. If anyone knows how to increase the wattage output, I would love to hear about it.

thanks

 

[Roadstergal]

I have owned an F800ST, and now own an FZ6.

The F800ST is very trick and very comfortable. It has a lot of nice addons that add up to a very comfortable ride. I once rode on the back of it while my husband and I were picking up another bike, and it's like a chaise lounge back there. The hard luggage is great. The wheels are beautiful, although the belt drive obscures the view from one side and the pipe from the other. The exhaust has (to me) a lovely, deep, meaty rumble that is not too loud. It is tame.

That is the biggest difference between the FZ6 and the F800ST, IMO. The F800 is competely tame, completely predictable, completely comfortable. The FZ6 is calm below about 8000 (although not lacking in torque - those who say I-4s have no torque are high ), but it has a nice hit when you spin it up. It's hardly hooligan (that's for the DR-Z), but it's not a bike that you feel you have to ride to a Wagner Festspielhaus to catch the latest Ring cycle.

I find the FZ6 easier to toss into corners. I did get the '07 because of the reports of the improved suspension.

Oh, and the F800ST has a too-tall first gear. Annoying.

That being said, the main reason I moved to the FZ6 was money. For the cost of an F800ST, you can have an FZ6, a DR-Z400S, a TT-R125L racebike, and a CR80R. If you have cash to blow, the F800ST is a very competent sport tourer. Emphasis on the latter.

 

[Whitey Dodge]

I have riden the F800ST and compared it to the FZ6 extensively.

The biggest issue I have is electrical output. The FZ6 has just enough juice to keep the bike running in stock configuration. Even double wiring the headlamps will drain the battery, never mind heated grips, aftermarket lights, or other high-draw accessories. BMWs have plenty of extra watts to run your widgets and keep you warm.

I know that's a high price to pay for electricity, but if you live in a cold place, or appreciate the value of good lighting, you will understand my issue.

I run a heated vest on my FZ6 and have no trouble with the battery staying charged. In fact I was reading another FZ6 owner's comments and he has the dual headlight mod and runs heated grips and vest without any problem.

 

[ronNoc]

Some interesting points...

Interesting issue re: electrical use with some different opinions. I have added extra lighting and some outlets (3!) to my Ninja 500, in addition to the GPS, so that's an issue for me. I plug my bike into its battery tender as soon as I get home. I guess the BMW uses a bigger battery with greater capacity? Is there such a thing as getting a battery that has the same dimensions but with better (more) amps/volts? I don't know anything about this topic...

Also getting an appreciation for the use of the powerband of the FZ6... there really is a huge midrange to play with.

Good also to have someone who has owned both - now there's an authority!
Roadstergal: it sounds like you're saying that the FZ6 is more fun because it gives you that hit when you spin it up... is that right?
Do you find the suspension about the same?
What about wind protection? Assuming an aftermarket windscreen for the FZ6, are they about the same?
Is the FZ6 a little more narrow and easier to split lanes with? That's what it looks like to me.

Great pics, BTW - the F800 is a great looking bike. Have any of your FZ6?

 

[Roadstergal]

Yes and yes to the first two. The wind protection is fine on both bikes - but I am a shortie.

I never had a problem splitting with either. Oddly enough, the FZ6 feels less top-heavy to me, despite the gas tank being in the normal spot (the F800 has the underseat gas tank).

It's hard to compare, because I never got around to having the F800's suspension set for me. It isn't as flickable, IMO, as the FZ6. But there's nothing I can really point to that's bad about it.

I have some FZ6 pictures here. They're both good-looking, IMO, in different ways. The F800 more stately, the FZ more elegant.

 

[dankatz]

Nice review Roadstergal. As you said, the BMW is very stately, maybe even teutonic.
Very nice pics! now, if I could only take some nice looking pics like this of my FZ6...
Dani