And this is why you should carry...

[Shawn]

This is just a random bit of thoughts rolling around in my head from comments I have read. I'm not saying if I agree or not with carrying a firearm.

First of all - I own firearms and enjoy hunting with them and shooting them.
However they are locked in a safe in my house and I do not feel the need to carry a firearm.

I feel relativly safe walking around the streets of our city. There are only a couple areas that I feel a little unsecure. However I know that likely the criminal element will be carrying a knife and not a gun. If everyone was to carry a firearm then the criminal element would also be carrying. The concept of escilation.

It is not likely that anyone would walk through a school or an office in my city shooting at people because guns are farily difficult and expensive to get. That is also famous last words also.

I worry about a regular person carrying a firearm. Do they know how to use it. What if they miss or shoot someone by mistake. Take this incident what if someone pulled out their gun to shoot this guy on the rampage and somone else only saw part of what was going on and they shoot the guy stopping the rampaging guy.

What if the guy shoots and misses and hits a kid on the other side of the street ? Who is responsible for the child getting shot. How would that affect you if it was you who missed the target and hit a child.

You can say that you train with your firearm and you won't miss but I have witnessed a city cop empty a clip on a bear 10 feet away and miss every single round. I have seen a hunter shoot 4 rounds at a bull elk and wonder why he missed and not realize that his gun was not even loaded. He was in disbelief until we proved there was no brass on the ground. Adreneline can do strange things with your mind and body.

If a criminal knows a home owner has a gun and they have a gun instead of breaking in the front door why wouldn't they break into the bedroom and get the drop on the sleeping person. Maybe use some sort of other weapon to disable the gun owner.

We also recently had an incident in our province where a 4yr old loaded a .22 and shot through a bedroom door and almost killed his 1yr old sister. The dad had left the gun in his closet unlocked and the little boy found it.

More guns = more accidents, harder to kill yourself or anyone with an accidental discharge of a knife.

Couple years ago a guy was killed by a gun shot wound too his leg and he bled to death. He was riding a ski-doo with a hand gun and it went off and he shot himself in the leg and bled to death.

What about carrying a gun in a car everyday on your commute and getting into a vehicle accident and the gun go off and you may survive the car accident but a bullet through the lungs from your own gun wouldn't be a nice day.

Like I said just a bunch of rambling and rumlings in my head. It is a slow day at work.

 

[ChevyFazer]

You have some good ideas but most can be wiped clean by simply learning basic firearm safety and not keeping a round chambered, IMO there is no such thing as accidental discharges.

 

[Shawn]

For sure a basic firearm saftey course can help reduce accidents. Car accidents shouldn't happen either because everyone has recieved driver training and should know the rules of the road too.

How many of us have nearly been hood ornaments because someone didn't shoulder check.

Can you guantee that the 60ish year old women who was knocked down in a park by someone stealing her purse doesnt' feel the stress of the attack, pulls her firearm from her ankle holster and start to let bullets fly knows where and who she is hitting. Even if she happened to take a training course.

What if you are sitting in that same park having a family BBQ and one of the bullets from that womens gun hits one of your kids. Do you pull you gun and shoot her ? All you see is the women shooting up the park.

Like I said I witnessed a city cop fire a full clip from his gun at a black bear that was 10 feet away and he missed every shot. He was trained probably more then most would be.

Or what about the 4 yr old that has watched dad chamber a round in the gun and does not understand the repercussions of pulling the trigger. I have a 1 yr old and a 4yr old.. They are quick and curious.

Even when I am hunting I am picky about the guys that I hunt with. I need to know they won't fire into a bush that is pushing to them. I have also spent time with them at the range and know they will hit what they are shooting at most of the time. How do you trust Joe public has had training and will hit what they shoot.

 

[ChevyFazer]

For sure a basic firearm saftey course can help reduce accidents. Car accidents shouldn't happen either because everyone has recieved driver training and should know the rules of the road too.

How many of us have nearly been hood ornaments because someone didn't shoulder check.

Can you guantee that the 60ish year old women who was knocked down in a park by someone stealing her purse doesnt' feel the stress of the attack, pulls her firearm from her ankle holster and start to let bullets fly knows where and who she is hitting. Even if she happened to take a training course.

What if you are sitting in that same park having a family BBQ and one of the bullets from that womens gun hits one of your kids. Do you pull you gun and shoot her ? All you see is the women shooting up the park.

Like I said I witnessed a city cop fire a full clip from his gun at a black bear that was 10 feet away and he missed every shot. He was trained probably more then most would be.

Or what about the 4 yr old that has watched dad chamber a round in the gun and does not understand the repercussions of pulling the trigger. I have a 1 yr old and a 4yr old.. They are quick and curious.

Even when I am hunting I am picky about the guys that I hunt with. I need to know they won't fire into a bush that is pushing to them. I have also spent time with them at the range and know they will hit what they are shooting at most of the time. How do you trust Joe public has had training and will hit what they shoot.

As far as someones ability to hit what they are shooting at, everyone misses and the people who do carry should know when to pull there gun and when not to, also when to shot and when not to, as far as knowing what's behind the target. That was one of the first things I was taught about firearm safety, never point a gun at anything or beyond anything that you do no intend on destroying. if more people were to carry I honestly don't think things would become like the wild west where purse snatchers get shoot. Then again not everyone should carry, I think there should be a very strenuous mental test to go along with the permit. As far as accidents go, as far as I'm concerned there is no such thing as accidental shootings, only responsible gun owners and irresponsible gun owners. Every single "accidental" discharge could have been prevented. Even those done by little kids, if the parents or gun owners would protect their guns as well as ammunition better there is no way a kid could "accidentally" discharge a weapon.

 

[Motogiro]

You have some good ideas but most can be wiped clean by simply learning basic firearm safety and not keeping a round chambered, IMO there is no such thing as accidental discharges.

One problem with the basics is that most of us operating motor vehicles have the basics and violate safety protocols every day. Statistics are almost completely useless because they are bent in the direction of whoever pays for the polls as well as just outright lying. You can imagine the amount of people operating vehicles today and using cell phones or texting. Wait a minute...you don't have to imagine...Just watch the text weaving.

I think black and white ideas are great but they sort of fall into a utopian society scheme of things. When they passed the hands free law here in California I guess the wording had to do with banning you from talking on a cell phone with out a hands free set but didn't include texting. So you can see, for some reason, that even gov't isn't on the ball. :thumbup: They later amended the law to include texting. Still as you can see when riding that those rules and safety protocols don't mean anything because?

There is more to using deadly force against someone than is on the surface and depending on the situation there are many scenarios that will determine your success at either being a hero or a menace to civilization.

Every time I go out on the road I see the potential dangers from my fellow citizens who's intent it is to get to where they're going while having to make a call or text. They're intent is not to harm me. I have never had someone try to shoot me. I have never seen someone shoot someone else. Not saying it doesn't happen.

The media doesn't report, everyday, all the people who didn't commit a crime against another or successfully got to work and back safely while texting. It basically reports what will sell soap.

 

[ChevyFazer]

One problem with the basics is that most of us operating motor vehicles have the basics and violate safety protocols every day. Statistics are almost completely useless because they are bent in the direction of whoever pays for the polls as well as just outright lying. You can imagine the amount of people operating vehicles today and using cell phones or texting. Wait a minute...you don't have to imagine...Just watch the text weaving.

I think black and white ideas are great but they sort of fall into a utopian society scheme of things. When they passed the hands free law here in California I guess the wording had to do with banning you from talking on a cell phone with out a hands free set but didn't include texting. So you can see, for some reason, that even gov't isn't on the ball. :thumbup: They later amended the law to include texting. Still as you can see when riding that those rules and safety protocols don't mean anything because?

There is more to using deadly force against someone than is on the surface and depending on the situation there are many scenarios that will determine your success at either being a hero or a menace to civilization.

Every time I go out on the road I see the potential dangers from my fellow citizens who's intent it is to get to where they're going while having to make a call or text. They're intent is not to harm me. I have never had someone try to shoot me. I have never seen someone shoot someone else. Not saying it doesn't happen.

The media doesn't report, everyday, all the people who didn't commit a crime against another or successfully got to work and back safely while texting. It basically reports what will sell soap.

I agree with you 110% on how we perceive things in black in white vs reality but it's my honest opinion that when it comes to firearm safety it should only be black and white and if one doesn't see it that way then they shouldn't be allowed a ccw. Because unlike the comparison to driving, when you put safety 2nd with firearms people don't always get another chance.

 

[Shawn]

Ok.. I see your point about accidental shootings not being an accident.
And everyone who owns a gun should know the does and don'ts and responsible and irresponsible gun ownership.

But as you are walking down the street how do you trust that the person over there on the other side of the street has maintained his gun or does not have a bullet chambered and he is just trusting his gun is on saftey?

In drivers education when you were 15 you were taught to always should check before changing lanes. How many people still do it 100% of the time ?

haha in an earlier post someone was talking about the future and phaser guns. Maybe we need to think more defensive. One bad guy with a gun and everyone else with a personal deflector sheild.

 

[ChevyFazer]

I don't guess there is a way to know what the other person carrying will do...if there were tougher tests or what not in order to get a ccw to begin with I guess you would have to put you trust in the system of selection... I know that sounds crazy right trusting the system but if there were strenuous stress test, mental aptitude test, accuracy test, as well as bi yearly renewals that retest the individual in all areas I think that would be a system I could trust

 

[Nobby]

As an ex-soldier I've enjoyed many firearms & do belive they have there place BUT how do we keep them out of the hands of the untrained & the loonies.....

Maybe some sort of compulsory national service..........That way people would be trained,know what happens when you shoot a soft skin target(one of the first thing we learnt was that a round from an assult riffle will penertrate about 75cm into compacted earth) & they could weed out the loonies.

Sounds to easy does'nt it :don'tknow:

 

[Sparkybean]

In the south of England where I live I have never ever seen someone with a gun, heard of anyone who has seen anyone with a gun. Sure on the news you hear about it, but it is often in places like London, which like many big cities contain people from so many cultures who don't seem to want to get along (which is a shame).
I have never been threatened by anyone with or without a weapon in my life, or know anyone who has, except from when they were in another country. I am not trying to make the UK sound like the safest place on earth, I'm sure it's far from it. But when I go on this forum and people from the USA talk about guns and the need to carry, it just makes me feel how different a country it is, from what I consider to be culturally the most similar country to the UK. I have been to the states many times and never in all my visits did it cross my mind that I may have been surrounded by people carrying things designed to kill people. If I knew many people in the UK carried guns I think I would live in fear slightly knowing that. Is this the reason you all feel the need to do likewise? It seems a sad way to live, I don't live in fear where I live, I would hate to see that change.

 

[Nelly]

You have some good ideas but most can be wiped clean by simply learning basic firearm safety and not keeping a round chambered, IMO there is no such thing as accidental discharges.

What ever they are called:
Accidental discharge,
Negligent discharge,
WTF was that?
they still happen on a regular basis.
Education and proper vetting will reduce to some degree accidents but not eliminate them totally.

Nelly

 

[ChevyFazer]

Unfortunately your right so called "accidents" with firearms will always be around because some people will always treat them as toys or just not give a damn about where they leave them or how they leave them

 

[RCPMg33k]

I'm gonna play the part of the a-hole here.

If you're going to buy a gun and not treat it with the respect it deserves, then you will eventually meet my friend Darwin. He gives shiny awards to a certain class of people. If you would like to be a Darwin Award Winner, then by all means...Be stupid.

I look at it as yet another way to thin the herd.

You can't stop an ACCIDENT. Accidents happen. You can stop STUPIDITY though...let it buy a gun...eventually nature will take its course.

 

[VEGASRIDER]

You can stop STUPIDITY though...let it buy a gun...eventually nature will take its course.

Unfortunately, at the expense of innocent people who can end up on the other end. This is the problem.

 

[RCPMg33k]

I agree with you on that. That really wasn't the point of my post though.

I was really trying to point out the difference between an actual accident that no one could ever hope to prevent and is very rare...

...and the stupid factor which is very preventable, but no one seems to know how to prevent...and is unfortunately far less rare...

...enter Darwin. :spank:

It is very sad when a man's son or daughter become recipients of the award that should have been meant for dear old Dad. But because he was stupid and didnt teach his children gun safety...and didnt practice it himself by locking up his gun...the kid shot them self.

Or like in the article posted here on page one...when a guy goes off his meds...of whatever happened...and decides to go postal. But that one wasn't necessarily stupidity...unless you count the stupidity of California government officials who have made it so hard to get a gun, that a trained individual with another gun was blocks away. No...this one was just crazy...and crazy is a little tough to prevent as well.

BTW...most of my guns...not legal in California. Why? Because they are fully automatic? Because I use armor piercing rounds? Because they are large caliber?

NO.

Because they hold too many bullets. WTF? Too many bullets? Any fellow gun nuts out there EVER have too many bullets in their gun?!?!?! According to California law, 16 rounds in a 9mm is too many bullets.

Some days I just cant wait for that ocean front property in AZ.

P.S. - Only take half of what I'm saying seriously...PLEASE. I'm just feeling particularly cynical today I guess.