And this is why you should carry...

[The Hill Boys]

The consequences of gun ownership does and will carry a certain amount of unintended consequences. Accidental shootings, suicides, and the occasional nut job. So, if using the rational that eliminating guns would resolve this, then you must also eliminate automobiles, motorcycles, airplanes, knives, tire irons, baseball bats, axes, rope, etc.

Using the "old West" scenario, if a pioneer group had a large herd of cattle with them and were unarmed, what would prevent rustlers from charging in and stealing the herd? If the same pioneer group were well armed, how would things be different?

Roll this forward to today. What prevent a gang of thieves from deciding to break into your home, steal everything of value to you and possibly hurt you or a member of your family? If they knew you were unarmed? Yes, the siren sounding in the background may be an annoyance, but within the few minutes it will take for your monitoring service to verify that you are being robbed, then the few minutes if will take to notify the appropriate law enforcement agency, then the 10-20 minutes it will take for that agency to actually get to your home, the damage will already be done. Of course, your unarmed neighbors, hearing the alarm, are going to rush out and try to help you defend your home right?

As far as the shooter in the op, had I been driving in that area and witnessed that scene unfolding, I would not, being armed, taken action to shoot the man. My reason for owning a gun is for protecting myself and my family. I am not going to protect your unarmed butt. You are on your own. Call 911 and good luck with that.

 

[Nick329]

I don't think that the type of training that you are citing can replace the YEARS of training that law enforcement (police, military, etc) get in order to legally apply force. Just shooting at targets in a scenario, or using a firearms training simulator, etc does not mentally prepare someone for the consequences of pulling the trigger. Not to mention that in the 'Vigilante Justice System' which seems to be consensus here, you eliminate or seriously curb the trained law enforcement personnel from being able to 'de-escalate' a potentially serious crime (ie. negotiating a perpetrator to disarm him/herself).

Don't get me wrong. I totally agree that sometimes police can take a long time getting to the scene of a crime that has been committed or is being committed (remember, I live in Canada; it's routine to have 3-4 man RCMP detachments in Northern Communites/Rural areas), but they have the training and experience in legal application of lethal force, just as the military does. Having the right to bear firearms, and having the right to enforce the most extreme application of force as detailed by law are two totally different things...

I appreciate what you are saying.
I do not know how law enforcement in Canada trains and prepares for deadly force situations, but there is really no good way to mentally prepare someone to take a life. The individual has to search deep down and determine if, and God forbid, when, the time comes he will be able to pull the trigger and possibly take a life to protect himself, a family member, or even a complete stranger. Owning and carrying a gun is a tremendous responsibility and should not be taken lightly.
With that being said, in the state of Georgia, where I am a law enforcement officer, officers are only required to qualify ONCE a year. This consists of 40 rounds being fired from 3 to 25 yards, at a paper target. If you achieve a score of 80% or better, you qualify for the year. SWAT teams fire a 50 round course and have to achieve 90% or better (they generally qualify more often and in addition to required agency qualifying to remain on the team).
This is done along with a judgemental scenario as well.
Also, throughout the year, my department will include the FATS and simunitions in more "real world" scenarios, which focus on the judgemental aspect of shoot/don't shoot and tactical advantage in highly fluid and evolving situations.
I am in a specialized unit and we conduct monthly training among ourselves. We are held to the SWAT standards for shooting and do so 3 to 4 times a year in addition to the two yearly qualifications required by our agency (one more than state mandate).

My point to this drawn out reply is this:
Everyone has to start somewhere, including LEOs and military, and if you plan to own/carry a gun, than you need to make a commitment to become proficient with that weapon and train on a regular basis (I do not think most law enforcement agencies emphasize this enough).
I believe that the current system of CCW needs to be overhauled to include the same type of screening (psycological, background check, etc.) and training (FATS, simunitions) to become proficient, knowledgable of law concerning lethal force, and demonstrate good judgement in a given situation.
If states set up a standard, and the standard cannot be meet or maintained, that individual does not carry a weapon.
I know there is no majic fix all, but anything would be better than what we have now.

Just my $.02

 

[falcon6123]

Well said sir! Exactly how I feel.

 

[Pranqster]

I am a proud Liberal American and I own numerous firearms, I wouldn't hesitate to use one if I had to. That being said, I think that reasonable restictions are a good thing. I don't need a 100 round drum magazine to defend myself and don't like the idea of grenade launchers available to 12 year-olds at walmart, but I also think that denying CCW permits to those of us who haven't committed any crimes or have mental problems limits our options while having zero impact on criminal activity.
:thumbup:

 

[Dave.TX]

I had a Concealed Handgun License (CHL) in Texas but let it expire. It was also good in many other states. I let it expire when I became a peace officer, I can carry just about anywhere now.

 

[Nelly]

Anyone see the video to this news story?? Ridiculous… THis is the prime reason why I think rational people should carry. Took the police forever to get there too...

Hollywood gunman shot dead by policeman from movie set | Reuters

It's not normal or rational to be willing to take another persons life.
A CCW will not prepare you mentally or emotionally to kill someone.

Dumb as a stump lol.

Nelly

 

[ChevyFazer]

It's not normal or rational to be willing to take another persons life.
A CCW will not prepare you mentally or emotionally to kill someone.

Dumb as a stump lol.

Nelly

It's the unknown that stops some criminals, most of them have guns but won't shoot someone, and if there was a chance that the person they are about to victimize had a gun on them they probably wouldn't commit the crime unless they truely are sick in the head, same idea of the ordinance in kennesaw it's the unknown that detures crime.

 

[Nelly]

It's the unknown that stops some criminals, most of them have guns but won't shoot someone, and if there was a chance that the person they are about to victimize had a gun on them they probably wouldn't commit the crime unless they truely are sick in the head, same idea of the ordinance in kennesaw it's the unknown that detures crime.

I understand your reasoning but people commit crimes for a number of reasons, If their need is that great they will commit the crime regardless of having a gun or not.

I think crime statistics per capita would demonstrate this in any given population (armed or unarmed).
I don't want to do the whole gun debate thing as it's done to death.

I'll give you an example of when a CCW is not a great idea.
A number of years ago I was visiting my brother in Texas we were driving to another bar, when the driver of the car I was in ran a stop sign and nearly hit another vehicle.
Long story short, big argument both drivers draw down on each other. I am like WTF is this all about. Eventually the machismo subsided and we went on our merry way.
I was an innocent person caught between two idiots.
I think this thread is quite correct in advocating better legislation and training.

Nelly

"The Second amendment "The right to bear arms and the right to arm bears"
(Robin Williams).

 

[ChevyFazer]

I understand your reasoning but people commit crimes for a number of reasons, If their need is that great they will commit the crime regardless of having a gun or not.



Nelly

"The Second amendment "The right to bear arms and the right to arm bears"
(Robin Williams).

That is very true kind of like the saying that locks only keep honest people honest

 

[04fizzer]

That is very true kind of like the saying that locks only keep honest people honest

Exactly, just like the deadbolt on my GLASS front door. I just hope that if someone does break into my house, they at least close the storm door so that the dog's there when I get home.

 

[04fizzer]

NY had proposed a law that ALL guns would have to be registered, not just hand guns like they currently require. This registration would require you to divulge not only the address at which the gun is kept, but WHERE IN THE HOUSE it is kept. This would be all well and good (mostly) if it weren't for the fact that this information is open to the public. Any criminal could look up an address and find out if the house contains firearms, and where they are.

This could work as a deterrent, or it could make you a target.

 

[The Toecutter]

NY had proposed a law that ALL guns would have to be registered, not just hand guns like they currently require. This registration would require you to divulge not only the address at which the gun is kept, but WHERE IN THE HOUSE it is kept. This would be all well and good (mostly) if it weren't for the fact that this information is open to the public. Any criminal could look up an address and find out if the house contains firearms, and where they are.

This could work as a deterrent, or it could make you a target.

This sound's to me like the goverment want's the info for themselves so when they show up for a call they have a heads up...... why would they need this information? maybe they expect the so called Law-abiding citizen's might not be so co-operative in the near future,the economy has failed and is predicted to completly collapse this coming year..... I just hope instead of food riot's we have mass Food-sharing !! if we don't start looking at each other as Brother's and Sister's we are doomed to fail as a whole. the change has to start inside our own heart's if we want a better world...... We hold the Power not the Law makers for a Better safer future....

 

[04fizzer]

This sound's to me like the goverment want's the info for themselves so when they show up for a call they have a heads up...... why would they need this information? maybe they expect the so called Law-abiding citizen's might not be so co-operative in the near future,the economy has failed and is predicted to completly collapse this coming year..... I just hope instead of food riot's we have mass Food-sharing !! if we don't start looking at each other as Brother's and Sister's we are doomed to fail as a whole. the change has to start inside our own heart's if we want a better world...... We hold the Power not the Law makers for a Better safer future....

My guess is that it was some sort of distraction tactic. A "here, look at my left hand while my right hand plays with your wife," kind of thing.

 

[Nelly]

This sound's to me like the goverment want's the info for themselves so when they show up for a call they have a heads up...... why would they need this information? maybe they expect the so called Law-abiding citizen's might not be so co-operative in the near future,the economy has failed and is predicted to completly collapse this coming year..... I just hope instead of food riot's we have mass Food-sharing !! if we don't start looking at each other as Brother's and Sister's we are doomed to fail as a whole. the change has to start inside our own heart's if we want a better world...... We hold the Power not the Law makers for a Better safer future....

Is it mandatory to have Paranoia with gun ownership lol.

Fair point though, why do you need to tell them that you have:
1 in Fridge
1 in shower
3 in bedroom
1 in attic
2 in car

Nelly

 

[lonesoldier84]

Your kidding right?

This wouldnt have happened in Canada because firearms don't make up as much of our national conciousness.

There is indeed something to be said about arming people less rather than more as a solution.

 

[mnuttall87]

Barack tried to do that when he came into office. His theory was to "serialize" every bullet so that if someone were to commit a crime you could trace the bullet to the person who bought. Genius idea right?

Except for the fact that it would have driven the cost of ammunition up 500%+ (I can find a source on this if necessary) and the ammunition manufacturers said that they would not produce a civilian and military (non-serialized) version, one or the other. So the US military would have gotten hit with a pretty big bill for that theory as well.

When guns are no longer produced I will gladly go out and purchase a plasma rifle for self defense.

Just stop producing the bullets.

I truly believe technology will take it's course, and firearms will be a thing of the past. Might be difficult to think how it possibly will, but just think what this world will be like in 20-30 years? Maybe something better than guns will be created, like phasers.

 

[Dave.TX]

Citizen ownership of firearms has been outlawed in Mexico for quite some time, look where that's gotten them. Criminals will never obey laws, laws only govern people who follow them.

 

[Tailgate]

If California had been declared a gun free zone, this wouldn't have happened. But, politicians don't have the backbone.

Simple solution, dumb politicians.

 

[ChevyFazer]

If California had been declared a gun free zone, this wouldn't have happened. But, politicians don't have the backbone.

Simple solution, dumb politicians.

100% not true, just because something is illegal or banned doesn't mean you can't get it. Crack is illegal yet there are still crackheads out there

 

[Tailgate]

100% not true, just because something is illegal or banned doesn't mean you can't get it. Crack is illegal yet there are still crackheads out there

I promise to work on my sarcasm.