Aftermarket exhaust and staying upright.

[Rumpole of the Bailey]

Spoke to some lawyers in Houston who are on a thread about bike mods and crashes. Seems some insurance companies are looking closer and closer at the machines turning up bent.
Consequently I would like to graph a hypothesis I am working on, just my slant on their thinking. Please don't answer the poll if you don't ride much, its the riders information I am interested in.
Cheers
Rumps

 

[OZXJR]

Crash mine with leo's .No probs with insurance.

 

[Taku]

Same here. Had Leo's installed and no problemos.

 

[Jugro]

So insurance companies think we crash more because we mod our bikes?
Must then be the increase in dB that turns our brains into mush.

What do I answer if I don't have an aftermarket exhaust, but crashed at a trackday?

 

[Wolfman]

Never had a stock exhaust when i have crashed! Never had an issue with insurance!

Am guessing that if they are going to start at exhaust's, then they have to consider non OEM brake pads, levers, oil, brake fluid, braided lines, etc, etc...

If Lawyers for the evil insurance companies get their way and void insurance for such things as aftermarket pipes, then my thinking is that a very ugly situation where any mod could void insurance!

Cant see it happening!

 

[tcmalker]

I think the lawyer has a valid point. Less than a week after installing my Leo Vince I was involved in an accident. Coincidence? I think not.

 

[lonesoldier84]

I have scorpions.

I've crashed multiple times.

The bike is bulletproof and I've never bothered with insurance companies. So far I've done a great job absorbing the impact with my body!

 

[gpostarmy]

This is just the type of silly technicality that the insurance would love to get over on. Charge you a ton on insurance then not pay on the policy because you have a aftermarket exhaust. Your exhaust has as much control over your bike and whether it crashes as politicians have on the budget. ( OK maybe the exhaust has a edge over them) From my limited experience, well compared to people who have road for 25 years, you can lump bike accidents into a couple categorizes. One, "stupid rider" (inexperienced ect.), two, the "i knew better" group ("lost focus" or " pushed it to far"), and lastly my favorite, stupid f!@#$ing car/truck. It is my believe that the majority of riders who spend this time tweaking their bike for comfort, performance, and handling are also tweaking their riding skills. Thus the idea that they should be the safer rider compared to the guy who just walks out of the show room with the most cc's and hp he can get.

 

[Yamma~Tiger]

No after market pipes, no crash..... as yet.

 

[CHEMIKER]

Not exactly sure what your real question is, and why there are only two choices, but for me:

a) yes
b) yes

I had the stock exhaust on when I crashed.

 

[FB400]

I have almost 5000 miles since installing Leo's and no crashes. It's a really stupid argument. Leave it to the lawyers.... geeeez.

 

[Stumbles06]

Not enough options in the poll!!

I've had Leo's on my bike for ages. Have done about 25,000 Kms with them, and never had a crash (touches.. no.. grabs the wooden desk with both arms and gives it a bear-hug.. don't want to tempt fate).

Huge "can of worms" will be opened up if those companies get their way. The insurance companies would go broke, everyone will refuse extra insurance, as this would then flow-on to cars and look at all the cars out there with modifications. Next, they'll be saying "you didn't have stock wheels on your car so we're not going to cover your accident damage".

Stupidity.
:rockon:

 

[Rumpole of the Bailey]

so far the hypothesis of my learned friend in Houston is null. It appears that only 30% of people who have fitted after market exhausts to their Yamahas have crashed their bikes. 1 in 3.
He was suggesting it would be 90% and therefore proving his argument.
Unfortunately our poll option is limited but this was the question I was after.
It has a few more days to run.
Rumpole

 

[wolfe1down]

Will be installing Leo's soon, but have not laid my bike down with or without...

Interesting numbers though, 1 in 3. I wonder what he was basing his projected stats on... Does he deal with multiple insurance agencies, across a wide geographic area, or was his hypothesis based on conjecture only?

 

[cap'n]

Stock exhaust, no crashy. This should really have been:

A) Stock exhaust + no crashes
B) Stock exhaust + at least 1 crash
C) Aftermarket exhaust + no crashes
D) Aftermarket exhaust + at least 1 crash

 

[Rumpole of the Bailey]

Will be installing Leo's soon, but have not laid my bike down with or without...

Interesting numbers though, 1 in 3. I wonder what he was basing his projected stats on... Does he deal with multiple insurance agencies, across a wide geographic area, or was his hypothesis based on conjecture only?

The law changes from various interventions by the public, the profession (including judges) and the government. I myself am currently doing research into ownership of water rights and I am representing the future inhabitants of the planet, unborn as yet, but entitled to an environment as clean as the one I was born into.
My learned friend in Texas has been talking to me about insurance issues for some time and was interested in the fact I had a new Harley with standard pipes and an FZ6 at home with the same. His stats on accidents finds the majority of sports bikes that are crashed have aftermarket pipes on them.
Insurance companies will use this to attempt to change policies or increase their premiums. Over time, some states will legislate against aftermarket pipes on a noise based function, ie above db levels. This is ridiculous and was tried in Australia in the 1970's with cops walking around with sound meters. My lawnmower wouldn't pass the test!
However, in the long run, I believe it may change exhausts on bikes. After all, In Queensland Australia where I maintain a home on the Great Barrier Reef, 2 stroke outboard motors are all but gone. 4 strokes are quieter and arguably cleaner.
Thanks for your opinion.
Rumps

 

[wolfe1down]

My learned friend in Texas has been talking to me about insurance issues for some time and was interested in the fact I had a new Harley with standard pipes and an FZ6 at home with the same. His stats on accidents finds the majority of sports bikes that are crashed have aftermarket pipes on them. Insurance companies will use this to attempt to change policies or increase their premiums. Over time, some states will legislate against aftermarket pipes on a noise based function, ie above db levels. This is ridiculous and was tried in Australia in the 1970's with cops walking around with sound meters. My lawnmower wouldn't pass the test!
However, in the long run, I believe it may change exhausts on bikes. After all, In Queensland Australia where I maintain a home on the Great Barrier Reef, 2 stroke outboard motors are all but gone. 4 strokes are quieter and arguably cleaner.
Thanks for your opinion.
Rumps

My question as posed was: are your friends crash numbers based on stats from his geographic area only? From one insurance company only? Or has he researched nationally (or internationally) and across different insurance companies. It would be difficult to capture legitimate stats for this type of study, as DOT's will only post stats on type of vehicle/type of crash (not specific mods) and not all insurance companies will pay out for specific mods...

A new law was passed this summer in Edmonton (Canada) to have bike pipes below a certain dB. It quickly raised the ire of the city (and province) as the test was difficult to reproduce accurately (due to poor police trg, inadequate equipment, etc.) Not sure what the end state was, but I remember watching it closely during the summer.

Hopefully no law like this will ever pass 'en masse' Cars/Trucks are able to modify themselves nearly beyond recognition (and sometimes safety) and due to their numbers are involved in far more accidents per year (including those resulting in fatalities) but no such law exists... Interesting

Anyways, I was just wondering what your friend was basing his study on, and where he was getting his info. Cheers!

 

[Red Wazp]

I myself am currently doing research into ownership of water rights and I am representing the future inhabitants of the planet, unborn as yet, but entitled to an environment as clean as the one I was born into.
Rumps

FYI: We are all drinking Dinosaur piss :thumbup:

 

[Nick J]

i think the manufacturers should come out with some decent looking and nice sounding exhausts. If they could do that then maybe we wouldn't change our exhausts as much as we do as a whole group. California is coming out with a new law in 2013 that says we can't change the stock exhaust at all. So, YES, it's starting already.

 

[Ridgeback]

Interesting thing here in the UK,is that bike insurers,take it as read,that Bikes will have aftermarket exhausts fitted and don't class it as a mod that will affect your premium.
That being said,if you don't declare them,they will still try and shaft you if you crash...