Need Help *Solved*I have a gremlin living in my bike

[Ben sIII]

Hello all,

I have a gremlin living in my bike, i am sure it is easy to find but i am stumped. The issue that i have is that the bike is selective on starting.

I keep the bike garaged on the center stand in neutral, normally as i go to approach it i would put the keys in, turn them and hit the starter and all is well, no matter if the side stand is up or down, simples.

Now it will often only start if the clutch is pulled in.

• the bike is in neutral
• the neutral light is on
• side stand position doesn't seem matter.

Any thoughts?

also 2005, FZ6S with 100,000+km

 

[Gary in NJ]

I’m not standing next to my bike right now, but I’m fairly certain it has a clutch lock-out.

 

[Ohendo]

I’m not standing next to my bike right now, but I’m fairly certain it has a clutch lock-out.

It does, you are correct… but should be bypassed when in neutral. Only applies when in gear.

 

[Ohendo]

Hello all,

I have a gremlin living in my bike, i am sure it is easy to find but i am stumped. The issue that i have is that the bike is selective on starting.

I keep the bike garaged on the center stand in neutral, normally as i go to approach it i would put the keys in, turn them and hit the starter and all is well, no matter if the side stand is up or down, simples.

Now it will often only start if the clutch is pulled in.

• the bike is in neutral
• the neutral light is on
• side stand position doesn't seem matter.

Any thoughts?

also 2005, FZ6S with 100,000+km

Do you have the service manual? Check out page 8-15 if so. I believe your issue is with the starting circuit cutoff system. Can’t copy/paste from the manual here (violation!) but the circuit is looking for either:

The transmission is in neutral
….OR
The clutch lever is pulled to the handlebar AND the sidestand is up.

When at least one of the above two conditions has been met the starting circuit cut-off relay is closed and the engine can be started by pressing the starter switch. Something appears to be amiss with your circuit.

 

[Ben sIII]

Do you have the service manual? Check out page 8-15 if so. I believe your issue is with the starting circuit cutoff system. Can’t copy/paste from the manual here (violation!) but the circuit is looking for either:

The transmission is in neutral
….OR
The clutch lever is pulled to the handlebar AND the sidestand is up.

When at least one of the above two conditions has been met the starting circuit cut-off relay is closed and the engine can be started by pressing the starter switch. Something appears to be amiss with your circuit.

Thanks for the manual location, still doesnt shed much light (maybe the diode?), but gives a nice list of places to test.

 

[Ohendo]

Agreed. Looking at the circuit it’s hard to figure out how your situation could be possible. You’re sure the side stand switch position doesn’t matter?
bike will start with side stand down and clutch pulled?

 

[Ben sIII]

Agreed. Looking at the circuit it’s hard to figure out how your situation could be possible. You’re sure the side stand switch position doesn’t matter?
bike will start with side stand down and clutch pulled?

well not absolutely when you ask light that, will check after work. working in Australian time

 

[Ben sIII]

wouldn't you know it, as an intermittent problem it was starting fine last night, will reply back when it does it again

 

[Motogiro]

Might be a good idea to also pull the right pod (IIRK) and check that the plug is clean and fully seated. It's a 16 pin plug on what looks like a relay assembly the other relay in that areas is the headlight relay.

 

[Ben sIII]

Might be a good idea to also pull the right pod (IIRK) and check that the plug is clean and fully seated. It's a 16 pin plug on what looks like a relay assembly the other relay in that areas is the headlight relay.

Thanks for that idea, I just pulled it and it had since light corrosion on a couple of pins.

Gave it a quick clean. Now to wait and see.

 

[Ben sIII]

Agreed. Looking at the circuit it’s hard to figure out how your situation could be possible. You’re sure the side stand switch position doesn’t matter?
bike will start with side stand down and clutch pulled?

So i got a visit from Gizmo last night, and had two incidents, the first the bike woudnt start in neutral, stand down and clutch in, but clutch in, stand up and in neutral it would start.

the next instance, was in gear ,clutch in and stand up,no start, then clutch in, stand up and in neutral still wouldnt start. Power on and off then started as clutch in, stand up and in neutral.

I have no idea what this means or if i am just making up starting correlations and it something far easier.

 

[Gary in NJ]

Try cleaning the contacts in the STOP-RUN switch in the throttle control.

 

[Ben sIII]

Try cleaning the contacts in the STOP-RUN switch in the throttle control.

That was my first port of call and cleaning/checking the starter relay contacts, all were ok, that and i just don't use the kill switch.

I am leaning towards the solenoid, and will try and run some continuance tests on it tomorrow, but i feel this is being hopeful

 

[Motogiro]

That was my first port of call and cleaning/checking the starter relay contacts, all were ok, that and i just don't use the kill switch.

I am leaning towards the solenoid, and will try and run some continuance tests on it tomorrow, but i feel this is being hopeful

That starter relay is on top of the battery. The starter does not use a solenoid but you could pull the starter and in inspect the brushes and commutator.
The kill switch is known to foul up on the FZ6 regardless of use so it is a good suspect but the bike will usually act up while riding as well. When this happens do you always hear the fuel pump prime?

 

[Motogiro]

Also the starter push button is what provides a ground path for the relay in the starter interrupt cut-off relay assembly. If safety logic in that circuit has failed, the starter interrupt relay will not allow the ground path for the main starter relay. If the starter interrupt cut-off relay assembly logic fails it will also not allow the fuel pump to prime. If you hear the fuel pump prime but the starter fails there's a better chance it's a failure from the starter which could include the relay on the starter interrupt cut-off assembly also referred to as a relay assembly as well as the main starter relay that is located atop the battery next to the 30 amp main fuse.
So the starter, brushed etc. main starter relay, starter interrupt cut off assembly and the starter push button including the connecting plugs and wiring associated are all suspect.
It's likely a simple fix but a bummer to find being it's intermittent.

 

[agf]

When I had my FZ6 many may years back I had a siilar issue. from memeory I found a microswitch under the clutch lever at the handle bars. I ended up givinga squrt of WD-40 into the switch and operated the lever 3-4 times and the issue resolved never to re-appear. This may not help but you never know.

 

[Ben sIII]

Sorry i did not note the new comments, so this is not resolved. The fuel pump primes everytime, so that part of the system is ok, It may be possible that the issue is with it starting in neutral. The neutral light is working when it should, so is it plausible it is the starting block under the right pod that does the safety check? I have pulled it and cleaned the prongs which had some minor corrosion. But it is still intermittent which is a jerk.

 

[Ben sIII]

So still living with this issue and then last night the bike would not start in any combo, the check engine light came up and gave error code 12, the TPS.

So as the engine hasnt emploded i presume this is just a bad sensor, or am i being to optimistic here?

I also don't see how this is related to my original problem, but being hopeful

 

[Motogiro]

So still living with this issue and then last night the bike would not start in any combo, the check engine light came up and gave error code 12, the TPS.

So as the engine hasnt emploded i presume this is just a bad sensor, or am i being to optimistic here?

I also don't see how this is related to my original problem, but being hopeful

Error code 12 is the crank shaft position sensor. Sometimes the ECU will toss any code if the voltage is low and erratic.
Have you pulled the ECU and inspected the connector and pins? All sensors and controls have to handshake at the ECU.

 

[Ben sIII]

Error code 12 is the crank shaft position sensor. Sometimes the ECU will toss any code if the voltage is low and erratic.
Have you pulled the ECU and inspected the connector and pins? All sensors and controls have to handshake at the ECU.

No, to but thanks will check that out today.