Faster than normal idle?, extended crank time?

[Fordtech58]

Aloha to all, I've been searching different topics for a few days and couldn't find anything that resembles my problem. I've purchased a 2006 FZ6 with 7,800 miles which is all stock with the exception of bars, grips, levers and a 48t rear sprocket. I've only put about 100 miles on it but a few things seem a little abnormal to me and one could be related to the other. I believe the thermostat and cooling system are fine. I have the blinking tach lower bar until the bike warms up in about 5 minute when the temperature gauge goes to the third bar and stays there. The bike seems to have a bit of an extended cranking 3-5 seconds before it fires up but when it does it idles smooth with no chugging or surging. When it's fully warmed up it idles just above 1600 rpm 1610-1680 is the digital readout though it doesn't seem to be surging. I've found what appears to be the idle screw on the left side of the throttle bodies, I turned it about 1 turn in each direction with no change in rpm up or down? I'm almost thinking a vacuum leak which could cause both concerns though I'd expect some surging with a vacuum leak. I'm looking at a set of LeoVince pipes but would like to know I don't have any problems before starting any modifications. Sorry to be so long winded but I wanted to ad as much information that I thought might help. Thanks to all who take the time to read this and offer assistance, Mahalo...

 

[TKBone]

Hello, does your rpm change (decrease) when the Motor is warm?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Aloha to all, I've been searching different topics for a few days and couldn't find anything that resembles my problem. I've purchased a 2006 FZ6 with 7,800 miles which is all stock with the exception of bars, grips, levers and a 48t rear sprocket. I've only put about 100 miles on it but a few things seem a little abnormal to me and one could be related to the other. I believe the thermostat and cooling system are fine.

I have the blinking tach lower bar until the bike warms up in about 5 minute when the temperature gauge goes to the third bar and stays there. The light stays on??

The bike seems to have a bit of an extended cranking 3-5 seconds before it fires up but when it does it idles smooth with no chugging or surging. 3-5 seconds starting cold is normal, hot-maybe a second, please clarify..

When it's fully warmed up it idles just above 1600 rpm 1610-1680 is the digital readout though it doesn't seem to be surging. I've found what appears to be the idle screw on the left side of the throttle bodies, That should look like a star shaped screw and yes it is the manual idle adjustment screw. Counter clockwise SHOULD LOWER THE IDLE.

I turned it about 1 turn in each direction with no change in rpm up or down? Try turning it CC more and see if the idle comes down.

I'm almost thinking a vacuum leak Very well could be, gonna have to dig deeper. which could cause both concerns though I'd expect some surging with a vacuum leak.

If the idle does not come down and you've checked for all hoses, etc under the tank for leaks, you may have to do a throttle sync (do a search here). Often, lack of idle adjustment, while doing the sync, the main cylinder (as I recall, adjustment #1), needs to be turned out to about 3/4-1 full turn from slightly seated. THAT will allow much more adjustment at idle and syncing..


I'm looking at a set of Leo Vince pipes but would like to know I don't have any problems before starting any modifications. I would NOT put on and pipes UNTIL the issue(s) are resolved. It will only make the high idle worse..

Sorry to be so long winded but I wanted to ad as much information that I thought might help. That does help..Thanks to all who take the time to read this and offer assistance, Mahalo...

Plus one on the above reply/post from TK, please reply..

Do you have the owners and shop manual for the bike?

The idle adjustment is in the owners manual as well as other important maintenance info..

PM me with an e-mail address and the year bike and I'll send you the manual as a PDF

 

[Motogiro]

Also there may be a relation to this thread and a similar problem. Some good work done here by Scott and Randy. :rockon: https://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6...t-adjust-down.html?highlight=idle+air+control

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Also there may be a relation to this thread and a similar problem. Some good work done here by Scott and Randy. :rockon: https://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6...t-adjust-down.html?highlight=idle+air+control

I remember the thread, forgot it IS very similar to the OPs issue... Getting old sucks..

 

[Fordtech58]

TKBone: when it's cold it idles about 1450-1500, gets higher when fully warmed up.

TownsendsFJR1300: Yes, once the third bar lights on the temp gauge the tach lower bar stops flashing and stays lit. It's giving me a 3-5 second crank cold and hot, once when hot after being shut off for only 2-3 minutes it just cranked and didn't start like vapor lock?? When I looked at the bike to buy it I met the guy at the local home depot and when I asked him to start the bike again I noticed he opened the throttle when he did. I suggested that it should be started without touching the throttle and he said he sometimes just forgot that. I had a Busa for 6 years and I'm currently on my third ZX14 and they all started virtually instantly hot or cold. I found the idle screw in the owners manual which I have, I realize counter clockwise should lower the idle but when it didn't I tried the opposite direction which didn't seem to raise the idle either. I'll recheck this again tomorrow as I just reached around the frame with 2 fingers to move the screw. I may not have moved it as much as I'd thought. I plan on lifting the tank to inspect all the vacuum lines, throttle cable routing and mounts etc.

Motogiro: Thanks for the link, I'll definitely check it out.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Well, your very familiar with bikes and it seems that guy was indeed quite shady telling you BS.

Yes, being FI'ed, you should have to touch the throttle, ever.

If the throttle needs to be opened, it's usually running too rich.

The high idle usually means it's lean at idle (I know, it contradicts the above).

Is there an aftermarket fuel controller on it? If so, besides checking for what he "dinked with", remove the controller.

The light coming on, I suspect that's part of the issue (don't know how), Cliff may be able to help.

The cold idle being lower than hot tends to point towards he messed up the sync screws...

I'd be going thru the bike, REAL CLOSE as someone's messed with it quite a bit (and lied about it).


A video of mine, cold start, warming up(just to show charging voltages). I do have my warm idle set at 1,100 on purpose (with Open Scopions):
https://www.flickr.com/photos/147134237@N06/29303851750/in/dateposted/


[MENTION=2579]Motogiro[/MENTION]

 

[TKBone]

Something to sort out quite easily: Air temperature Sensor. Hold reset button when total milage is showing.

 

[Motogiro]

The light coming on, I suspect that's part of the issue (don't know how), Cliff may be able to help.



[MENTION=2579]Motogiro[/MENTION]

I think he's saying the lowest LCD display bar is flashing (tachometer) until it warms up and shows 3 bars on the temp readout, and then it's normal on the display. This is normal on the S1 instrument cluster.

 

[Fordtech58]

If I ride the bike tomorrow I'll check the temp sensor reading. Cliff, yes I believe what I'm seeing is normal as you explained. Scott, the bike doesn't have any fuel module or modifications other than bars, grips, levers and a 48t rear as he was a dirt bike rider and fairly large guy. I'm hoping to check a few things tomorrow after work. I've got all my Saturdays reserved for my drag bike until it's ready. We've been shut down for a year for a complete resurface project and are scheduled to reopen the last weekend in February. Aloha, Rick B...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Air temperature Sensor. Hold reset button when total milage is showing.

What does this do???

 

[TKBone]

Shows intake Air temperature in the display

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Shows intake Air temperature in the display

Obviously, but how does that fix the issue?

 

[TKBone]

It simply shows, if the sensor works properly or if the temp readout is rubbish.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

It simply shows, if the sensor works properly or if the temp readout is rubbish.

And if the sensor was bad, that bad sensor would not allow engine idle to NOT be adjusted?

It would also cause the VERY the high idle?

 

[Fordtech58]

Just a quick update of what I learned today and from the link provided earlier. First off I thought I was adjusting a throttle plate stop screw or linkage for the hard throttle stop. When I saw no change with adjusting either way I started my research. Newbe mistake I had no idea I was adjusting an air bleed on an idle air bypass valve. This morning cold I forgot to check the air temp sensor as suggested before I started it. Cold start it idled up to about 1650-1700 then slowly came down to about 1440, after my 9 mile ride to work at 65-73 degrees when I got down into the valley the hot idle was back to 1610-1680. When I got back home tonight it was again in the 1680 range. I put it on the center stand, got my long phillips and about 2.5 turn counter clockwise is was down to a steady 1200. I looked in the owners manual specification pages and didn't find an idle spec. I then found it on the frame decal on the left and was able to turn it back about 1/4 turn to a 1260-1310 idle. I'll look forward to my next cold start to see how it reacts for both cold idle and crank time. I'm pretty sure one will effect the other. From what I can gather from the wiring diagram and sensor location the "Intake air temperature sensor" besides being a readout for ambient temperature in an input for the fuel injection system. Cooler denser air has a high oxygen content and the ecu controls the injector pulse width to compensate. If the temperature sensor is reading hotter then actual it'll be lean, colder then actual it'll be rich so it can indeed effect idle and cranking time. Thanks for all the help, Aloha, Rick B...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Not sure which screw you initially adjusted with Rick, but probably should be checked that it's in spec.

Was it one the SMALL screws in this block?:




If so, you definitly need to sync the TB's..
Chapter 3 in the manual shows how to adjust properly.

Cracking the throttle to start hot shouldn't have anything to do with the idle stop screw..

Please post back the final results.

 

[Fordtech58]

I hadn't touched any of the balance screws. I just hadn't moved the actual idle screw enough thinking it was and actual throttle plate or lever hard stop screw. I'll probably still lift the tank and check the air filter and throttle bodies to be sure they're clean and nothings living in there. It's been less than 1000 miles in the past three years so they could be a little gummed up or could have critters living in there. My new battery and Puig windshield got here today, got a set of original bars, grips oil filters and drain plug gaskets on the way from a dealer in So. Carolina.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Try a heavy dose of Yamaha's "RingFree": https://www.shopyamaha.com/product/details/ring-free-plus?b=Search&d=34 HIGHLY recommended, I use it in ALL my gas machines and customers machines... It's a bit cheaper on-line.

Also, probably not an issue at this time, but if the bike had been sitting, you need to check the inside of the fuel tank.
If stored for awhile, not being full (depending on the humidity), the inside tends to rust. That rust eventually clogs the fuel pump filter and cooks the pump..