Chain whizzing noise

[jeanjesuit]

Hello fellow FZ6 lovers.

Since I bought my FZ6 I tried to catch up on previous maintenance, including fluids, filters, lubing parts and cables, ... Ever since I got it the engine was jolting under 4K at constant rpm, when rolling off or under light acceleration. Plus I could feel irregular notches in the foot rests. My first thought was to up the idle, which was under spec, but little changed. A few searches led me to believe the actual cause was a loose chain.

Checking it carefully I saw a few very tight spots which resulted in a very uneven tension. A local mechanic recommended cleaning the chain with petrol, a WD40 bath and a nice lubing after it all was dry. It was much better but now the chain was loose all around.

So I bought a torque wrench, noticed the rear wheel was misaligned, adjusted alignment and tension (around 3.5-4cm, 1.5 in) and test rode it today. On top on the unimproved notchy feel in the foot rests I now have a whizzing sound most noticeable around 70 km/h (45 mph).

Pushing the bike with the engine off isn't difficult but the chain noise is fairly loud. After double checking wheel alignment and chain alignment both seem good (chain visually, wheel with a tape meter measuring the distance of the nut to the end of the swingarm on both sides). The chain still has a few tight spots but they're now barely visible unless carefully looking at them. Sprockets were checked by the mechanic when I got advice about chain cleaning and are in good condition. I'm not even sure the noise actually comes from the chain, but it's located on the rear left side and little else seems to be moving there, save for the wheel, which seems ok.

Am I missing something obvious? Did I do something wrong? Would a chain/sprocket replacement likely fix the issues? Something else?

I appreciate all ideas, advice and contributions. Thank you all.

TLDR: chain had tight spots, seemed much better after a thorough WD40 cleaning, bought a torque wrench, adjusted chain tension and rear wheel alignment, got greeted by loud chain noise when pushing the bike engine off, a whizzing sound most noticeable around 40-45 mph, and a notchy feeling in the foot rests. What gives?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

First, the chain is too tight. TWO inches (50mm's) at the tightest spot as measured ON THE CENTER STAND.

Second, with seized links, the chain is toast. Replace it...


Curious, what did you use for LUBE? WD40 is ok for cleaning but it's NOT a lubricant..

And how many miles on the chain?


If you need a copy of the owners manual (for setting chain tension, etc), PM me I have it as a PDF.

 

[heath_AU]

^ What he said
Seized links means you need a new chain
You do not want to risk a seized link at highway speed. Imagine the consequences.
I have just recently converted to a 525 chain. So far it is great although it does stretch a lot more than the 530 did. I only ever needed to make 1 small adjustment on my 530 - if at all
The 525 needed a tweak after a while

The 525 is a cheaper option as well (slightly) and its also a small weight saving
Make sure you ALWAYS buy new sprockets with a new chain. (The sprockets are cheap compared to the chain anyway)

 

[jeanjesuit]

Thanks guys. Here's the current state of the chain and sprockets (chain was loosen up since). I believe the front sprocket is toast. I guess that could explain the notchy vibrations in the footrest ?

First, the chain is too tight. TWO inches (50mm's) at the tightest spot as measured ON THE CENTER STAND.

It indeed was. Unfortunately my bike doesn't have a center stand so I approximate 3.5-4mm (1.2-1.6 in) on the side stand. But without center stand I didn't select the tightest spot thus messed it up. It should be fixed now. The idling jet engine noise wasn't noticeable this morning, I'll check again on my way from work.

Second, with seized links, the chain is toast. Replace it...

Seems like everyone is consistent about that. I'll try to milk a month more out of it, if it's not on too tight only the sprockets and the chain itself are at risk, right ?

Curious, what did you use for LUBE? WD40 is ok for cleaning but it's NOT a lubricant..

Don't worry, I have a Motul chain lube spray. I only use WD40 for cleaning.

And how many miles on the chain?

Actually got no idea. The bike has 38k mi, so I doubt it's the original one, and service records have a gap between 8k and 23k mi so it could have been changed at that time.

If you need a copy of the owners manual...

It's fine thanks, I got a copy from Yamaha. Sadly only the center stand method is mentionned while my bike doesn't have one.

I have just recently converted to a 525 chain. So far it is great although it does stretch a lot more than the 530 did. I only ever needed to make 1 small adjustment on my 530 - if at all

Might this be due to the chain quality itself? Adjusting the chain every so often doesn't seem very convenient. I've also read about owners swapping to a 520 chain and tension issues barely were mentionned.

 

[jeanjesuit]

Thanks all. First of all here are current pictures of the chain and sprockets. The chain has since been loosen up.

First, the chain is too tight. TWO inches (50mm's) at the tightest spot as measured ON THE CENTER STAND.
If you need a copy of the owners manual (for setting chain tension, etc), PM me I have it as a PDF.

Thanks for the offer. I got the manual off Yamaha's website, but it only mentions the adjustement on the center stand, which my bike doesn't have. So I approximated it with the bike on the side stand and a little weight on the seat, about 1.3-1.6 in. I had failed to locate the tightest spot and have since loosen up the chain a bit. I didn't notice the idling jet engine noise this morning, I'll pay attention when coming back from work later.

Second, with seized links, the chain is toast. Replace it...

Seized links means you need a new chain

Seems to be the consensus around here and elsewhere. I'll try to milk one more month out of it.

Curious, what did you use for LUBE? WD40 is ok for cleaning but it's NOT a lubricant..

Don't worry, I got a can of Motul chain lube. I only use WD40 as a cleaner.

And how many miles on the chain?

I actually dont know. The service history has a gap between 8k and 23k mi and the bike currently sits at 38mi. There are no records of a chain change but I doubt it's the original one so it could have happened sometimes during that gap.

I have just recently converted to a 525 chain. So far it is great although it does stretch a lot more than the 530 did. I only ever needed to make 1 small adjustment on my 530 - if at all

I've heard of many doing that, even going down to a 520 chain. Seems like they'd be able to withstand a FZ6 easily; wouldn't the stretching be caused by a cheap(er) chain?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Pic's are VERY revealing.

The front sprocket is badly worn. See the rust on it? That's the sprocket NOT TIGHT on the shaft. Tighten the nut to spec's ASAP.

The rear sprocket is also worn out, quite obvious..

IMO, stick with with stock size, it lasts longer and you won't adjusting it much (if maintained).

Maintenance to your chain and sprockets looks pretty bad. All that old grease, crap(dirt) stuck to the chain
will wear that chain out.


Now,

If the chains been replaced, the master link very likely has two small INDENTS, where the chain link tool presses the ML on.

If you don't have those marks on ANY outside plate, it's very,very likely the original chain.


You can carefully prop a 2x4 (cut the correct length) under the right side of the axle (bike on the kick stand) to get the rear wheel off the ground). Then check for the tightest area.

You CAN adjust with the bike on the side stand, STILL aiming for TWO INCHES. 1.3-1.6 IS STILL TOO TIGHT-Loosen it up.

You can also cut a 2x4 to fit between the top of the rear tire and the underneath of the rear to get all the load off the back wheel (as if on a Center stand), then adjust.

I gather your NOT using chain wax? Looks like regular petroleum based (good).

 

[jeanjesuit]

The front sprocket is badly worn. See the rust on it? That's the sprocket NOT TIGHT on the shaft. Tighten the nut to spec's ASAP.

It's pretty tight and I can't move it around at all. Seems like there's no washer, maybe the rust is galvanic corrosion?

Maintenance to your chain and sprockets looks pretty bad. All that old grease, crap(dirt) stuck to the chain will wear that chain out.

It was awful, when I got it the whole thing was coated in dry dark gunk and chunks of it were trying to escape from the front sprocket cover. That was about 1k mi ago when I nearly emptied a can of WD40 on everything.

I gather your NOT using chain wax? Looks like regular petroleum based (good).

Indeed, it's this product.

You CAN adjust with the bike on the side stand, STILL aiming for TWO INCHES. 1.3-1.6 IS STILL TOO TIGHT-Loosen it up.

Maybe it's my worn sprockets/chain but I found that at 2 inches I get bad jolting when cruising at constant speeds or using little gas, if under 4K rpm. 1.5 in or so seemed to fix it. Was that normal behaviour?


I'll be buying a rear wheel stand to do things properly.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Maybe it's my worn sprockets/chain but I found that at 2 inches I get bad jolting when cruising at constant speeds or using little gas, if under 4K rpm. 1.5 in or so seemed to fix it. Was that normal behaviour?

I'll be buying a rear wheel stand to do things properly.

Yes it is. You links not straightening out causing an adjustment nightmare.

The rust on the front sprocket is NOT from galvanic action. That nut should be tightened to 61 Ft lbs. (put a torque wrench on it)

This parts fisch shows what you should have at the front sprocket:

Yamaha Motorcycle Parts 2007 FZ6 - FZS6W TRANSMISSION Diagram

Is washer, part #34 there?


Can you post what year bike you have?

.

 

[jeanjesuit]

Yes it is. You links not straightening out causing an adjustment nightmare.

The rust on the front sprocket is NOT from galvanic action. That nut should be tightened to 61 Ft lbs. (put a torque wrench on it)

Is washer, part #34 there?

Can you post what year bike you have?

Sorry I thought I had that on my profile. It's a 2007 FZ6 NHG (S2, naked) (I actually just found out it has no ABS despite the front fairing sides having ABS stickers. Thanks VIN check). Part 34 actually is present. The torque wrench clicks at about 60 so I guess that's correct. Can't really understand why it would corrode. Although as I mentioned earlier the space under the cover was choke full of gunk so that might have caused it?

May I simply order a nut and washer through a dealer? Or is that washer the reusable kind? The manual is quiet about sprocket replacement.

Thanks again.

 

[FinalImpact]

Would almost bet it is stock and ran dry a long time.
That ted rust does tell a story. Get some new hardware on there fast!

PS - you will never get a proper torque reading if the threads are full of rust. The shaft and nuts need to be clean.

Be safe....

Also you will notice as the rear compresses from loading that the S/A gets closer to paralell to the ground and the chain gets more taunt. Tight drive chains sing...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

That's NOT the original front sprocket on there. The original has some sort of composite/material just below the teeth
to probably hamper noise.

The washer does not appear to be a lock washer (I forgot), but you should put a new nut on there.
The outer edge of the nut gets pined over the shaft to keep it from loosening up

 

[jeanjesuit]

PS - you will never get a proper torque reading if the threads are full of rust. The shaft and nuts need to be clean.

That might be. Although I can't tell yet as I don't want to take it off until I have a replacement ready. Driving around here is too much of a PITA.

Also you will notice as the rear compresses from loading that the S/A gets closer to paralell to the ground and the chain gets more taunt. Tight drive chains sing...

Yep that's why I tightened the chain as close to possible as the bike would feel with my weight on it. I know it's not perfect though, It'll be better when I pick up a stand.

That's NOT the original front sprocket on there. The original has some sort of composite/material just below the teeth to probably hamper noise.

TBF if you look at the picture closely you can make out a layer between the sprocket (where the teeth are) and the washer. On close inspection that layer seems to have been damaged by the chain links hitting it, you can see it's dented approximately along the "U-shape" of the sprocket. Might this have been the composite material that's so worn out it's barely distinguishable from the sprocket itself?

The washer does not appear to be a lock washer (I forgot), but you should put a new nut on there.
The outer edge of the nut gets pined over the shaft to keep it from loosening up

It seems to me the S1 had those lock washer but the S2 had regular ones. Your link merely says "washer, plate", while the 2006 diagram shows a different design and says "washer, lock".

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

The original sprocket will NOT LOOSE the plastic "collar" I referred to.

The chain will wear down thru the sprocket, thru that collar. I've already changed mine out, that sprocket is NOT OEM.
(been wrenching on this bike for ten years)..

Yes, the S1's came with just a washer.

The S2's nut was changed from the S1 as there was issues of the S1's nut coming loose/off
There are several threads here about it, (along with a broken crankcase from the chain getting thrown.)

Purchase a new nut and washer AND use RED loctite on it when you swap out the sprockets and chain.

The rust seen is coming from the middle, not from the chain.

In any case, it all needs replacement

 

[jeanjesuit]

The original sprocket will NOT LOOSE the plastic "collar" I referred to.

Purchase a new nut and washer AND use RED loctite on it when you swap out the sprockets and chain.

Cheers Scott, you've been incredibly patient and helpful.

I hope the dealer prices will be kinder than what I saw, the most reputable Yamaha parts online store here sells the washer for... $12.26. That's right. And $32.44 for the nut.

I got lots of stuff to do on that bike still. At least next time I'll be on the market I'll know better what to watch out for. I had been too spoiled by my previous unkillable air-cooled 125

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

If its a lock washer, you can probably get by with it. Look for a slot cut in the washer to confirm.

The nut itself, I cannot tell in the pic, but is ANY of the VERY outside edge of the nut, (fairly thin) AND PEENED OVER the sprocket shaft (the S2 is, the S1, probably not)?

 

[jeanjesuit]

Quick update for y'all: I got the kit chain changed and most of the noise went away, replaced with a little mechanical ratchet due to the absence of rubber dampeners on the DID steel front sprocket. It's quickly covered up by engine noise though, so nothing too annoying.

Washer and nut got reused, I checked the nut torque after a couple days, all good. Alignment and tension in spec. The rumble in the pegs is also mostly gone. Hopefully it'll stay like that. New plugs are coming in, will swap it as soon as I get the time.

Peaking around the bike, I noticed something that's been (moderately) bothering me. There'a kind of rubber sheet, a couple inches thick, half loose in the upper engine bay, right above the oil fill plug / lower clutch cable connector. Anyone have any idea what that thing is? The peart hidden by the frame seems stuck/fixated, only the part pictured is loose. Thanks !

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Quick update for y'all: I got the kit chain changed and most of the noise went away, replaced with a little mechanical ratchet due to the absence of rubber dampeners on the DID steel front sprocket. It's quickly covered up by engine noise though, so nothing too annoying.

Washer and nut got reused, I checked the nut torque after a couple days, all good. Alignment and tension in spec. The rumble in the pegs is also mostly gone. Hopefully it'll stay like that. New plugs are coming in, will swap it as soon as I get the time.

Peaking around the bike, I noticed something that's been (moderately) bothering me. There'a kind of rubber sheet, a couple inches thick, half loose in the upper engine bay, right above the oil fill plug / lower clutch cable connector. Anyone have any idea what that thing is? The peart hidden by the frame seems stuck/fixated, only the part pictured is loose. Thanks !

Part #29 is the only sheet of rubber but it's not thick:

Yamaha Motorcycle Parts 2005 FZ6 - FZS6T FRAME Diagram

You can look at other parts diagrams and see if you can find it.

Can you post a pic?

.

 

[jeanjesuit]

Can you post a pic?

Sorry if it wasn't obvious, the picture is attached in the above message. Here's the album FZ6 S2 loose plastic sheet above oil filler cap - Album on Imgur

It's not actually rubber, more like a plastic, but the texture is somewhat rubbery. I imagine it's old and used to be transparent at some point in its life.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Found a black one, same area, but sit's flatter than yours, right up against the engine(square silver cover atop the engine).

Found it, part #11: Yamaha Motorcycle Parts 2007 FZ6 - FZS6W SIDE COVER Diagram

Likely just keeps water from getting on the electricals.


Mine sits square with the raised aluminum, square engine block.

With yours being crooked, probably won't hurt anything but to set it right your going to have to do some digging to see
why someone c0cked it (R&R till you can set / move it into the proper spot)...

 

[jeanjesuit]

Impressive detective work Scott. Cheers. I have trouble figuring out where it's supposed to go though... I hope I'll get a better idea when lifting the tank. Something definitely happened under there though, judging by the white electric tape on the cables visible in pic #2.