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  1. #51
    2007 FZ6 TownsendsFJR1300's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Timing appears to be off (stretched timing chain?)

    Can you get a hold of a laser temp gun and point at the very top of the headers when the bikes up to temp?

    Just trying to rule out the engine output delivery (ALL cylinders performing the same) vs something physically out of balance.
    Scott
    2007 Yamaha FZ6- BD43 headlight mod, PIAA bulbs, Stebal air horn, Scorpion SS pipes-(no DB killers), Speedohealer, HEL SS brake lines, Fenda Extenda, K&P SS re-usable oil filter, custom mounted BMW style electrical outlet(L.S.), Techmount GPS mount with handlebar bar risers/set backs, additional helmet lock, custom mod'ed seat(Spencers), Hyper light-rear running/brake light, custom radiator/fan protector, Techspec tank pads, Grip Puppies, Yamaha rear rack with custom aluminum flat rack.

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  3. #52
    tom_nuke (OP)
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    Re: Engine Timing appears to be off (stretched timing chain?)

    Quote Originally Posted by TownsendsFJR1300 View Post
    Can you get a hold of a laser temp gun and point at the very top of the headers when the bikes up to temp?

    Just trying to rule out the engine output delivery (ALL cylinders performing the same) vs something physically out of balance.
    Yep, I'll try this tomorrow and post back with results.

    Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk

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  5. #53
    2 Da Street, Knobs R Gone FinalImpact's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Timing appears to be off (stretched timing chain?)

    Minor repeat from me.
    On mine there was zero discernible performance loss. Starts fine, idles fine, revs, pulls through all gears at all speeds. But does not have a nice clean note from the tail.

    The ugly was that at like 45 or 4700 rpm to 9k it made vibes that made your @ss sore! Hands and feet less so, but noticeable.

    Mind you TB does nothing after 3.5 to 4k.

    So if this is anything like mine, please revisit the ignition. Unscrew the caps from the wires and ohm the caps from plug connect to wire connect.
    And don't hesitate to ohm the plugs too. They should be 5k ohm from input to electrode.

    Trim the plug wires and fan out the strands 360, screw the caps down until snug and zip tie the cap to the HT lead.

    Good luck and thanks for hanging in there!
    08 Raven w/a few mods...
    R6 Forks, R1 Rear Shock (revalved), 6 Ignition Advance, S1 CAT free Header, SS Mid-Pipe, 2Bro Exhaust, AIS block off plates, Bazzaz Z-Fi Fuel Controller & Z-AFM Data Logger, Air Box mod, CR10E Plugs, 48-Tooth Rear Sprocket, FZ1 Bars, Spider Grips, Adj levers, Powder Coated -Triple, Bars & Rear Sets, Solid mounted rear-sets w/knurled pegs, Dual Headlight, Tail Tidy, LED Combo Brake & Directionals, LED POD lights & Tinted PUIG Wind Screen!

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  7. #54
    2007 FZ6 TownsendsFJR1300's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Timing appears to be off (stretched timing chain?)

    Just to clarify Tom, I'm under the impression you have a BAD VIB, (like a cylinder not hitting).

    Or is it more of a buzziness, can't see thru thru the mirrors, numbs the hands, etc?


    Final Impacts above post CAN cause loss of spark in a cylinder, the temp gun will show what the problem cylinder is, IF it is a cylinder not at 100%
    Scott
    2007 Yamaha FZ6- BD43 headlight mod, PIAA bulbs, Stebal air horn, Scorpion SS pipes-(no DB killers), Speedohealer, HEL SS brake lines, Fenda Extenda, K&P SS re-usable oil filter, custom mounted BMW style electrical outlet(L.S.), Techmount GPS mount with handlebar bar risers/set backs, additional helmet lock, custom mod'ed seat(Spencers), Hyper light-rear running/brake light, custom radiator/fan protector, Techspec tank pads, Grip Puppies, Yamaha rear rack with custom aluminum flat rack.

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  9. #55
    2 Da Street, Knobs R Gone FinalImpact's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Timing appears to be off (stretched timing chain?)

    Quote Originally Posted by TownsendsFJR1300 View Post
    Just to clarify Tom, I'm under the impression you have a BAD VIB, (like a cylinder not hitting).

    Or is it more of a buzziness, can't see thru thru the mirrors, numbs the hands, etc?


    Final Impacts above post CAN cause loss of spark in a cylinder, the temp gun will show what the problem cylinder is, IF it is a cylinder not at 100%

    No it doesn't nor did it ever loose spark, power, or drop a hole. It always ran fine. But over 4500 it could develop an @ss numbing vibe while out on a ride. Much Like OP is saying. And it was not this way when I bought it with 4k on the clock.

    In the realm of inductance induced field collapse and waste spark coils, I believe the waste spark is of no consequence. However the discharge from these two coils if the capacitance is different it makes a tiny shift in when the coils unload their energy.

    At 6000 rpm the two coils have to deliver 3000X4 sparks. So at a fixed RPM each spark should be equal in duration (dwell) time and delivered at each cylinder at the same crankshaft position (angle). But every coil is an inductor. Every inductor has resistance and capacitance (RC), because the R value on the secondary coil is so huge (plug is 5k ohms, ceramic resistor 10k ohms, coil winding ?? Ohms) and these R values can vary by 2000 to 4000 ohms clearly they have little impact on spark timing. Thus it is the C value that changes the coils discharge time in relation to the crankshafts angle.

    Unfortunately none of us own a meter capable of measuring capacitance of an operational circuit.

    That tiny shift or imbalance of spark discharge timing between the two cylinder sets creates this harmonic vibration.

    Dead or lean cylinders create a very different vibe. One of substantial power loss. This has little power loss but sparks not delivered at the proper crankshaft angle do not accelerate the crankshaft at proportional angles and this is felt by the rider as a resonance or harmonic vibration.
    08 Raven w/a few mods...
    R6 Forks, R1 Rear Shock (revalved), 6 Ignition Advance, S1 CAT free Header, SS Mid-Pipe, 2Bro Exhaust, AIS block off plates, Bazzaz Z-Fi Fuel Controller & Z-AFM Data Logger, Air Box mod, CR10E Plugs, 48-Tooth Rear Sprocket, FZ1 Bars, Spider Grips, Adj levers, Powder Coated -Triple, Bars & Rear Sets, Solid mounted rear-sets w/knurled pegs, Dual Headlight, Tail Tidy, LED Combo Brake & Directionals, LED POD lights & Tinted PUIG Wind Screen!

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  11. #56
    2 Da Street, Knobs R Gone FinalImpact's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Timing appears to be off (stretched timing chain?)

    Think of it as a marching band out of step. A band with a few instruments off note. Still playing. Still contributing. But off just enough to be noticed!
    In this case it takes on a resonance as the cranks velocity is not being accelerated at equivalent times. Off just a nats @ss.
    08 Raven w/a few mods...
    R6 Forks, R1 Rear Shock (revalved), 6 Ignition Advance, S1 CAT free Header, SS Mid-Pipe, 2Bro Exhaust, AIS block off plates, Bazzaz Z-Fi Fuel Controller & Z-AFM Data Logger, Air Box mod, CR10E Plugs, 48-Tooth Rear Sprocket, FZ1 Bars, Spider Grips, Adj levers, Powder Coated -Triple, Bars & Rear Sets, Solid mounted rear-sets w/knurled pegs, Dual Headlight, Tail Tidy, LED Combo Brake & Directionals, LED POD lights & Tinted PUIG Wind Screen!

  12. #57
    tom_nuke (OP)
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    Re: Engine Timing appears to be off (stretched timing chain?)

    Small update, took temps after getting home from work yesterday afternoon. This may thrown off results since the radiator fan was running. In a nutshell, each header was showing anywhere from 270F to 310F. I didn't see any cylinders that were outside of that range at any time, but they did vary which may be more with my tester and other environmental factors (rad fan, distance from header, angle, etc).

    Describing the vibrations is tough. It's not a buzziness, I've experienced that before hand (buzziness at 4K RPMs for example). This is a constant vibration closer to a miss, but not quite as prominent. It's present as soon as the bike is started and is felt all the way to redline. From memory, the engine sounds different than before, even the exhaust might sound different (been too long since this change occurred). It feels more mechanical than harmonic, if that makes sense.

    Regarding FI on repeat - I'll also go on repeat - When replacing the coils, I did trim the wire ends and spread out the conductor strands before re threading the HT leads back onto the wires. I did not zip tie the wire, but other steps were already performed (AND were performed previously on the original coils and wires 2 years back when all this started). This has had no effect on this current vibration.

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  14. #58
    2 Da Street, Knobs R Gone FinalImpact's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Timing appears to be off (stretched timing chain?)

    Hmmm.... sounds like you have a genuine Virgin of a problem here!


    Thanks. Those details matter as we're all running on text here.

    Mine you could not feel at idle to 4k. That is big dividing line.

    Have you ever heard this engine detonate or ping? And forgive me, were we not also suspect of the clutch blowing up (tho you found it 100% in tact).
    Any evidence **ANYONE** was in there before you? As in, it blew up, damaged gears and had new discs installed?

    Help me out here; did you also say that it was fine when you got it and that this is new? I think so.

    This is a tough one. Cracked piston. But why? Broken skirt. But why?

    I'm at a loss!
    08 Raven w/a few mods...
    R6 Forks, R1 Rear Shock (revalved), 6 Ignition Advance, S1 CAT free Header, SS Mid-Pipe, 2Bro Exhaust, AIS block off plates, Bazzaz Z-Fi Fuel Controller & Z-AFM Data Logger, Air Box mod, CR10E Plugs, 48-Tooth Rear Sprocket, FZ1 Bars, Spider Grips, Adj levers, Powder Coated -Triple, Bars & Rear Sets, Solid mounted rear-sets w/knurled pegs, Dual Headlight, Tail Tidy, LED Combo Brake & Directionals, LED POD lights & Tinted PUIG Wind Screen!

  15. #59
    tom_nuke (OP)
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    Re: Engine Timing appears to be off (stretched timing chain?)

    Quote Originally Posted by FinalImpact View Post
    Hmmm.... sounds like you have a genuine Virgin of a problem here!


    Thanks. Those details matter as we're all running on text here.

    Mine you could not feel at idle to 4k. That is big dividing line.

    Have you ever heard this engine detonate or ping? And forgive me, were we not also suspect of the clutch blowing up (tho you found it 100% in tact).
    Any evidence **ANYONE** was in there before you? As in, it blew up, damaged gears and had new discs installed?

    Help me out here; did you also say that it was fine when you got it and that this is new? I think so.

    This is a tough one. Cracked piston. But why? Broken skirt. But why?

    I'm at a loss!
    I've not heard the engine detonate or ping. However, it does sound "different" now.

    The problem started during my ownership. The bike ran great when purchased and then one day, not so much..

    You mentioned it sounds like a quieter version of the blown up clutch embedded gear bike. FZ6 experts, what do I need to test for this? Run out gauge of some sort? Anything visual I can inspect/measure in the absence of special equipment?

    To add insult to injury, I had a feeling the manual tensioner was too tight.. so I loosened her up and proceeded to re adjust. Well I guess I loosened her up a *bit* too much and as I was rotating the crank heard the tell tale timing chain skipping noise. Half-assed opened the valve cover and sure-as-**** the cam gears are off. So now I'm off to tear the top apart, again, to re-align everything. Yay
    Last edited by tom_nuke; 09-10-2018 at 01:14 PM.

  16. #60
    2 Da Street, Knobs R Gone FinalImpact's Avatar
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    Re: Engine Timing appears to be off (stretched timing chain?)

    Uhg.... damn. Yep, done did it now. Sorry man.

    I could be mistaken but I would think the noise from a blown up disc would be just that a noise and if it induced a vibration it would lesson over time and not get worse.
    As you stated, since you've owned it, it was vibration free and got worse.

    In short a clutch disc (aluminum) goes between the cranks primary gear and the clutch gear. Often times this leads to aluminum being bonded to the steel gears makingn a very rhythmic fixed sound that varies with rpm and to a lesser extent load on the final drive.

    The gears if they are the cause, would show some form of deflection. Damage. A different sheen when compared to others.

    I know I asked but did you find any trace of the case being opened before you got there??

    I would love to hear and ride this.... Just to know if it's the same issue.
    08 Raven w/a few mods...
    R6 Forks, R1 Rear Shock (revalved), 6 Ignition Advance, S1 CAT free Header, SS Mid-Pipe, 2Bro Exhaust, AIS block off plates, Bazzaz Z-Fi Fuel Controller & Z-AFM Data Logger, Air Box mod, CR10E Plugs, 48-Tooth Rear Sprocket, FZ1 Bars, Spider Grips, Adj levers, Powder Coated -Triple, Bars & Rear Sets, Solid mounted rear-sets w/knurled pegs, Dual Headlight, Tail Tidy, LED Combo Brake & Directionals, LED POD lights & Tinted PUIG Wind Screen!

 

 
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