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  1. #21
    FinalImpact (OP)
    2 Da Street, Knobs R Gone FinalImpact's Avatar
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    Re: Crisis takes to chattering, brakes that is.. .. ..

    Quote Originally Posted by Nelly View Post
    Could it be that with the updated suspension and better braking system you are more confident to push the limits causing the tyre to brake traction?

    Nelly

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
    08, stock brakes. I propose we start a fund to get Final Impact a video camera!

    Hey, I'm not trying to do a "Stoppie" here, just slow the damn thing down. Its not insane neck snap braking and certainly not locking the wheel - I promise you that. I go fast, but its a very smooth fast. I pull hard out of the corners, brake just enough going into the corners to hit my marks - although sometimes through the corner entry. My style this year has not changed. If you could all see the narrow, rough roads we travel, it may help here... But something has changed I just need to figure out what it is.
    08 Raven w/a few mods...
    R6 Forks, R1 Rear Shock (revalved), 6 Ignition Advance, S1 CAT free Header, SS Mid-Pipe, 2Bro Exhaust, AIS block off plates, Bazzaz Z-Fi Fuel Controller & Z-AFM Data Logger, Air Box mod, CR10E Plugs, 48-Tooth Rear Sprocket, FZ1 Bars, Spider Grips, Adj levers, Powder Coated -Triple, Bars & Rear Sets, Solid mounted rear-sets w/knurled pegs, Dual Headlight, Tail Tidy, LED Combo Brake & Directionals, LED POD lights & Tinted PUIG Wind Screen!

  2. #22
    Never stop exploring darius's Avatar
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    Re: Crisis takes to chattering, brakes that is.. .. ..

    Quote Originally Posted by FinalImpact View Post
    I go fast..
    That must be it. Now slow down and stop using the front brake so much.

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  4. #23
    Junior Member aclayonb's Avatar
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    Re: Crisis takes to chattering, brakes that is.. .. ..

    Please tell me that stock brakes isn't "brakes from 2008"? As in, no rebuild or clean out in almost 6 years?
    2008 FZ6 Fastest Black / R6 forks / homemade killernoodle slave lever clone / dual headlight mod / integrated tail indicators / lighted under-carriage / Spencer Seat Mod / Renthal Road Medium Bars / Motocentric sport bags - Tail bag - tank bag

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  6. #24
    FinalImpact (OP)
    2 Da Street, Knobs R Gone FinalImpact's Avatar
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    Re: Crisis takes to chattering, brakes that is.. .. ..

    Quote Originally Posted by TownsendsFJR1300 View Post
    With it occurring most of the time braking downhill, especially hard braking , as you mentioned, the forks are compressing more than on flat ground.

    I would strongly look at a slightly longer spring spacers (or if there's an adjustment-extend it) to keep the forks from dipping quite so far.

    I don't know why they would chatter unless the front tire is "skipping" on the road, perhaps too much dampening, not allowing the forks / wheel to extend back out.

    All the above is after ruling out crap on the disc's / pads.

    Just a thought..
    As a test, I'm sure that changing the preload/sag would change this in someway. However, I would be putting it back to the sag its at now. 31mm IIRC. PS - no, tire is not skipping and frankly, its not the brakes that are chattering - its me! Picture a wood pecker hammering on the forks.

    As it stands now I need to check the sag before I tear it down for fresh oil just to see if it changed any.

    I have -
    New Fork oil
    New brake pads << not sure I'll install them. We'll see how much materials is left.
    New brake fluid

    I'll throw a dial indicator on the rotors just so everyone can see the run-out if any. Although the magnetic base would stick better if I had steal fork housings.... lol I've been working lots of hours and w/the weather in the teens and twenties, working on Crisis has not been a priority. Hopefully sometime around Christmas I can get a few things done.

    Off topic ToDo List:
    - Dump radiator fluid / flush, refill
    - Install 5 degree advance pickup wheel. Waiting for gasket
    - Build a new tail tidy, add brace back lost in TB exhaust install
    - Add new LED license plate light
    - Make some side marker lights...
    08 Raven w/a few mods...
    R6 Forks, R1 Rear Shock (revalved), 6 Ignition Advance, S1 CAT free Header, SS Mid-Pipe, 2Bro Exhaust, AIS block off plates, Bazzaz Z-Fi Fuel Controller & Z-AFM Data Logger, Air Box mod, CR10E Plugs, 48-Tooth Rear Sprocket, FZ1 Bars, Spider Grips, Adj levers, Powder Coated -Triple, Bars & Rear Sets, Solid mounted rear-sets w/knurled pegs, Dual Headlight, Tail Tidy, LED Combo Brake & Directionals, LED POD lights & Tinted PUIG Wind Screen!

  7. #25
    FinalImpact (OP)
    2 Da Street, Knobs R Gone FinalImpact's Avatar
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    Re: Crisis takes to chattering, brakes that is.. .. ..

    2014-01-04 Inspection:
    First off, best of plans did not come into play - i.e. change one thing at a time and determine the primary root cause. So, this is more of a restore the baseline.

    I measured the SAG and found the R6 forks had settled from 31mm to 36mm. The spring free length did drop a mm from 252mm to 251mm (recorded in previous thread below).

    I didn't measure the oil depth in the fork before dumping but they weren't leaking so I just dumped them and refilled them with Yamaha 7.5 wt. A NEW change from 10Wt to 7.5 wt.at a depth set to 106mm. Note: Old oil looked pretty clean, not grey, no metallic bits. A 2 year interval it is!

    FROM: 2012-02 http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-g...tml#post461560
    OIL FILL SPEC: 490mL should have come out. I got 470mL. Without the spring and spacers and washers in the way and with the tube collapsed it should measure from the top 106 mm (4.17 in).
    FILL Height to level: a 1 pint bottle or 473mL

    Note: the coil spring winding is supposed to be wound tighter at the top. Nada - equal throughout the entire coil. This is begging the question if these are/are not OEM R6 springs.
    As found:
    Coil Dia= 4.72mm 0.186"
    Coil spacing = 9.26mm .366" between coils
    Free length = 252mm spec: >244 <249 (9.81" - 9.62")
    Coil count: 7coils/10cm or 17 coils not counting ground ends.


    Forks were assembled, SAG returned to 31mm. New oil will likely require damping rate adjustments.

    BRAKES:
    Right side pad thickness all over 3mm
    Left side pad inner >3mm, outer slight taper 2.5 to 3.0mm.

    Caliper Pistons:
    RS caliper all pistons freely move by thumb pressure.
    LS caliper one piston firm but not stuck. By holding other the 3 in place by HAND, break pressure applied, piston moves for cleaning. Repeated 3 times, all pistons move with finger pressure. Although I have new pads, I did not install them.

    Wheel hub, rotor visual inspection:
    No obvious run out from wheel or tire. Rotor surface. Anyone familiar with hot spots, hard spots on surfaces? Its not obvious but the rotors appear to have tell-tale signs of being too hot. The only time I could see the imperfection was after wiping them with brake cleaner. It appears as circles between the drill holes. If these were meant to be resurfaced, often times the process reveals the hard spots when cutting or being ground away. I did not measure run out on rotors as I was freezing at 35F for the last few hours and put it back together. A more thorough inspection is required.

    ROTORS: My Actual Rotor:
    Lighting in the area the bike is sucks and I couldn't get anything to show up last night. Here is pic of the Rotor from 2013-06 when the S20 front tire went on.
    Attachment 51648

    Borrowed from a search for reference. Mine now have a dark blue hue closer to this.
    Attachment 51650
    But not as bad or pronounced as this showing the hot spots.
    Attachment 51649

    My take away is I might be asking a bit much of the brakes as some entry speeds require more brakes than she has to offer. Another thought is the Thicker (NEWER) pads have more mass and may have made a better heat sink extracting some of the heat from the rotors. As they thin, the temperatures climb quicker and the rotor gets hotter. SO, perhaps a different pad is in order or those new pads should be installed.

    Finished the evening by bleeding the brakes:
    Emptied fluid reservoir with 50cc syringe. Added new Dot 4. Bled brakes manually, tapping calipers with hardwood to displace any residual air. Tap only upwards and NOT from the sides.

    I'm undecided about any ONE item as the cause. I don't believe the rotor condition is directly related to the suspension bouncing like rubber ball. So, that's where it stands right now.

    I'll make an adapter for this so I can secure it at the caliper bolts. Runout and deviation of the rotors hard spots may be detectable.
    Attachment 51654
    Last edited by FinalImpact; 01-05-2014 at 02:06 PM.
    08 Raven w/a few mods...
    R6 Forks, R1 Rear Shock (revalved), 6 Ignition Advance, S1 CAT free Header, SS Mid-Pipe, 2Bro Exhaust, AIS block off plates, Bazzaz Z-Fi Fuel Controller & Z-AFM Data Logger, Air Box mod, CR10E Plugs, 48-Tooth Rear Sprocket, FZ1 Bars, Spider Grips, Adj levers, Powder Coated -Triple, Bars & Rear Sets, Solid mounted rear-sets w/knurled pegs, Dual Headlight, Tail Tidy, LED Combo Brake & Directionals, LED POD lights & Tinted PUIG Wind Screen!

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  9. #26
    2007 FZ6 TownsendsFJR1300's Avatar
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    Re: Crisis takes to chattering, brakes that is.. .. ..

    Randy, I don't know if it relates to your chatter issue but would relate to any hot (blue) spots on the rotor.

    As you know, Yamaha recommends new brake seals every TWO years. I've found 4-5 years is more realistic.

    If you've never changed the seals out, being your bike is now approx 5 years old, I would change them out. Just that one sticking some, will ONLY GET WORSE.. You'd be surprised at much easier the wheel will spin without the extra drag.

    Just throwing out something, if that one brake caliper (one piston) is indeed sticking, causing that hot spot, I would think one caliper braking more than the other would not be good and could possibly cause your issues. Potentially warping the rotor, then the chattering occurs, especially if running hard..

    If it was warmed outside, I'd ride the bike, stop with the rear brakes only and feel or measure the temps of the ft rotors. They of course, should be about the same.

    IMHO, with all your done with the front end, I would replace those seals just to rule them out (I know its an R6 ft end)...
    Scott
    2007 Yamaha FZ6- BD43 headlight mod, PIAA bulbs, Stebal air horn, Scorpion SS pipes-(no DB killers), Speedohealer, HEL SS brake lines, Fenda Extenda, K&P SS re-usable oil filter, custom mounted BMW style electrical outlet(L.S.), Techmount GPS mount with handlebar bar risers/set backs, additional helmet lock, custom mod'ed seat(Spencers), Hyper light-rear running/brake light, custom radiator/fan protector, Techspec tank pads, Grip Puppies, Yamaha rear rack with custom aluminum flat rack.

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  11. #27
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    Re: Crisis takes to chattering, brakes that is.. .. ..

    If you haven't done it yet, try cleaning the pistons with a tooth brush and some soapy water! Pump the brake a pit until they come out enough to be shiny, and then just brush the crap ring away with the brush, a little break cleaner helps to!

    Before doing it i had stuck/lazy pistons, after doing it, it all works fine, and i get a lot less drag!

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4CDe5ARBSI]Delboy&#39;s Garage, Winter Brake Service. - YouTube[/ame]

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  13. #28
    FinalImpact (OP)
    2 Da Street, Knobs R Gone FinalImpact's Avatar
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    Re: Crisis takes to chattering, brakes that is.. .. ..

    Quote Originally Posted by FinalImpact View Post
    2014-01-04 Inspection:
    Caliper Pistons:
    RS caliper all pistons freely move by thumb pressure.
    LS caliper one piston firm but not stuck. By holding other the 3 in place by HAND, brake pressure applied, piston moves for cleaning. Repeated 3 times, all pistons move with finger pressure.
    DONE - All Pistons move with equal FINGER PRESSURE. All of them. Wheel exhibits no drag when spun. Push one piston a random one pops out.

    I'll order some new seals as it is wise at this time in its life.

    Look, its a caliper....
    Attachment 51653
    08 Raven w/a few mods...
    R6 Forks, R1 Rear Shock (revalved), 6 Ignition Advance, S1 CAT free Header, SS Mid-Pipe, 2Bro Exhaust, AIS block off plates, Bazzaz Z-Fi Fuel Controller & Z-AFM Data Logger, Air Box mod, CR10E Plugs, 48-Tooth Rear Sprocket, FZ1 Bars, Spider Grips, Adj levers, Powder Coated -Triple, Bars & Rear Sets, Solid mounted rear-sets w/knurled pegs, Dual Headlight, Tail Tidy, LED Combo Brake & Directionals, LED POD lights & Tinted PUIG Wind Screen!

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  15. #29
    2007 FZ6 TownsendsFJR1300's Avatar
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    Re: Crisis takes to chattering, brakes that is.. .. ..

    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos840 View Post
    If you haven't done it yet, try cleaning the pistons with a tooth brush and some soapy water! Pump the brake a pit until they come out enough to be shiny, and then just brush the crap ring away with the brush, a little break cleaner helps to!

    Before doing it i had stuck/lazy pistons, after doing it, it all works fine, and i get a lot less drag!

    Delboy&#39;s Garage, Winter Brake Service. - YouTube
    That will indeed help however, the rubber seals harden over time and will stick again and get worse.

    Before replacing my seals, I pulled them ALL APART, cleaned them SPOTLESS, used brake specific grease too on the seals (made for brake seals) for the re-installation.

    Helped for about 9 months, then started dragging again...

    Put new seals in, 200% better.

    BTW, putting the old seals next to the new ones, I could NOT SEE or feel any difference. Once installed, the difference was extremly evident... I'm good for for at least 4 years... As a side note, I do, maybe once a month or when boarded, just take the air compressor to the calipers and blow all the dust out (inboard and outboard pads). A bunch of dust usually comes out, especially the fronts...
    Last edited by TownsendsFJR1300; 01-06-2014 at 04:35 AM. Reason: typo
    Scott
    2007 Yamaha FZ6- BD43 headlight mod, PIAA bulbs, Stebal air horn, Scorpion SS pipes-(no DB killers), Speedohealer, HEL SS brake lines, Fenda Extenda, K&P SS re-usable oil filter, custom mounted BMW style electrical outlet(L.S.), Techmount GPS mount with handlebar bar risers/set backs, additional helmet lock, custom mod'ed seat(Spencers), Hyper light-rear running/brake light, custom radiator/fan protector, Techspec tank pads, Grip Puppies, Yamaha rear rack with custom aluminum flat rack.

  16. #30
    FinalImpact (OP)
    2 Da Street, Knobs R Gone FinalImpact's Avatar
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    Re: Crisis takes to chattering, brakes that is.. .. ..

    Quote Originally Posted by FinalImpact View Post
    2014-01-04 Inspection:
    First off, best of plans did not come into play - i.e. change one thing at a time and determine the primary root cause. So, this is more of a restore the baseline.
    2014-01-25 Test Ride ~50 miles:
    Great weather today but a tad chili at 45F w/the gear i had on.

    Recap:
    Rotors, pads, calipers cleaned. Brakes bled.
    R6 forks fluid changed from 10wt to 7.5wt, sag returned to 31 mm.
    Tire pressures at 34F/36.5R
    Tank empty to tank Full

    NO changes to Bar angle.

    Brakes felt good, suspension nice and firm AND tracking the road very well. Again, very satisfied with the damping on the nose. Turn in is lovable and she is truly a joy to ride!

    In short, after not riding for 3 months, I wasn't pushing it as much as required to really heat the brakes at heavy lean angles so I can't say I 100% duplicated the conditions that had previously caused the nose to beat like wood pecker but I can say the bum stretch of road (the washboard section know to cause the issue) did not induce a hint of chattering. This seems like GOOD NEWS, as there were no signs of it at all and I think it should have been enough. Time will tell.

    I did velcro a wrap around the stanchion tube to get an idea of how much travel is being consumed. I measure 4.0".

    By the book the R6 Forks have 120.0 mm (4.72 in) of wheel travel.
    According to this: I'm using 102 mm of it. I hit one pretty fair dip and I'm guessing that consumed most of it. In short its good to know its not bottoming and there is still room for more but 0.72" IS NOT leaving much before we bounce off the road or taco a rim. The oil weight change made the forks react quicker just a tad quicker but a longer ride is needed to fine tune them again.

    102 mm of travel being consumed (4.0" of 4.72")


    My actual rotors:






    Lastly, this may seem like nothing - but I'll through it out there. It was 37F when I filled the forks and capped the tops. Air expands with heat right. Well, as the forks work and IF THEY DON'T LEAK, they'll actually have pressure inside I suspect! Impact on this??? IDK! Maybe none.

    Thats it for now.
    Last edited by FinalImpact; 07-28-2014 at 01:52 PM. Reason: 600riders
    08 Raven w/a few mods...
    R6 Forks, R1 Rear Shock (revalved), 6 Ignition Advance, S1 CAT free Header, SS Mid-Pipe, 2Bro Exhaust, AIS block off plates, Bazzaz Z-Fi Fuel Controller & Z-AFM Data Logger, Air Box mod, CR10E Plugs, 48-Tooth Rear Sprocket, FZ1 Bars, Spider Grips, Adj levers, Powder Coated -Triple, Bars & Rear Sets, Solid mounted rear-sets w/knurled pegs, Dual Headlight, Tail Tidy, LED Combo Brake & Directionals, LED POD lights & Tinted PUIG Wind Screen!

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