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  1. #11
    FinalImpact (OP)
    2 Da Street, Knobs R Gone FinalImpact's Avatar
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    Re: A cure for bad vibrations, spark plug caps!!

    Quote Originally Posted by motojoe122 View Post
    I did it the other day too, #3 and 4 caps were loose. Checked the plug gap as well, all were in spec. It made a noticable difference in vibe reduction.

    Eat your words broooother!!!!! :BLAA: haha!
    Quote Originally Posted by motojoe122 View Post
    Seems the faster blue ones don't have that problem.....Annnndd here we go ooooo!:BLAA:
    08 Raven w/a few mods...
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  3. #12
    FinalImpact (OP)
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    Re: A cure for bad vibrations, spark plug caps!!

    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenBiker View Post
    Thx for the thoughts on this. The vibes begin at idle, and increase heavily after 6000..
    Been through the sync'ing, re-torque, good gas, new plugs, and this coil-wire check.
    No joy.
    Might be worth it to do a compression test. If they are not equal, proceed to Valve lash check. But you can say "heavily after 6000.." as in not drive train but engine??? i.e. if in neutral it does it doing a static rev?

    If valve adjustments are made, you'd have to sync again.
    08 Raven w/a few mods...
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  4. #13
    Junior Member Clay350's Avatar
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    Re: A cure for bad vibrations, spark plug caps!!

    I honestly dont think this can have an affect on vibration. Just don't see it. If one or more cylinders aren't firing it would be very obvious.

    My vibration has always been in the 6-8 k range like most fz6. It is not a coincidence that this is vaguely where our engine have a lull in the power band. What im saying is that its completely normal and cant be fixed for this engine. It can only be marginalized by other means such as motor mounts etc....
    Last edited by Clay350; 05-17-2013 at 02:26 PM.

  5. #14
    FinalImpact (OP)
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    Re: A cure for bad vibrations, spark plug caps!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Clay350 View Post
    I honestly dont think this can have an affect on vibration. Just don't see it. If one or more cylinders aren't firing it would be very obvious.

    My vibration has always been in the 6-8 k range like most fz6. It is not a coincidence that this is vaguely where our engine have a lull in the power band. What im saying is that its completely normal and cant be fixed for this engine. It can only be marginalized by other means such as motor mounts etc....

    Are you saying - added resistance from a compromised connection can not cause an increase in vibration? If that is the intent of the above statement - I'm telling everyone else, that is NOT the case and it DOES MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE!!! That is exactly why I changed only one thing and nothing else. I didn't remove the plugs, just the caps.

    Also if you read my original post, you see I was not complaining of a complete misfire - but a vibration. Doing this simple action cured high frequency vibe that was present across all RPMs.
    08 Raven w/a few mods...
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  6. #15
    Motorcycle Noooooooooooob
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    Re: A cure for bad vibrations, spark plug caps!!

    If whoever does this next could snap some pictures of the relevant components, that'd be greatly appreciated. I may be able to do it this weekend; if so I'll get some then. Honestly, I'm not entirely sure what we're talking about, but I probably just need to tear into it myself.

  7. #16
    FinalImpact (OP)
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    Re: A cure for bad vibrations, spark plug caps!!

    Quote Originally Posted by FloppyRunner View Post
    If whoever does this next could snap some pictures of the relevant components, that'd be greatly appreciated. I may be able to do it this weekend; if so I'll get some then. Honestly, I'm not entirely sure what we're talking about, but I probably just need to tear into it myself.

    Scroll up; Joe Read your mind!!! I posted!

    As for the wires end; when snugged down; some will come up tight; others will feel like a stripped thread. Fix the ones that feel stripped.
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  9. #17
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    Re: A cure for bad vibrations, spark plug caps!!

    Missed that somehow, thank you!

  10. #18
    FinalImpact (OP)
    2 Da Street, Knobs R Gone FinalImpact's Avatar
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    Re: A cure for bad vibrations, spark plug caps!!

    New info to share....

    from this post: http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-p...tml#post542095

    Which has my thoughts. Oh and some from Cliff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Motogiro View Post
    One of the reasons gap could be twice as important on our bike is it uses 2 coils for 4 spark plugs. One coil for #1 and #4 cylinder and one coil for #2 and #3 cylinder. What happens is the coil fires at TDC and the end of the exhaust stroke for each piston that is mechanically at TDC and end of exhaust stroke. In other words pistons #2 and #3 are both in the same position in the cylinder but they are at opposites in firing and exhaust. One being the end of compression and beginning of power. The other cylinder would be the end of exhaust and beginning of the intake. So the coil is firing twice as many times as a coil that is dedicated to one cylinder. Dielectrically there is more stress on the coil pack because the path for it's spark has been increased. It is more likely to create corona (with increased gap) internally and break down internally or when there is an insulation problem it may more readily take that path and not produce a strong or weak spark where we want it. The coils are looking a 2 plugs... Be careful setting the Iridiums!
    Set your gap to factory specs!

    What it really lacks by design is saturation time. At 14,000 RPM that doesn't leave much time with "waste spark system" so its very likely coil output energy is weak at high RPM. Remember its not just a spark and there is current factor. Hence the reason the gap is so critical.

    Just an observation but Yama may have learned something over the years as the 09 does not use the "K" plug with the double ground strap side fire electrode. Also NGK calls for less gap on the CR9E single ground strap plug (conventional plug) 0.028" vs 0.032" on the K version.
    POINT; the CR9EK is gapped at 0.032" The spec for our bike is 0.60.7 mm (0.0240.028 in). be sure to correct this before installing your plugs!

    EDIT:
    I'm curious if the ECM/Coil packs would be OK without the resistor Plug CAP or would this impair them or something like the instrument cluster from the EMI noise emitted either radiant or back into the connecting wires? I might remove the interanl resistor in the cap and see what happens! Why you ask? Because I can feel when the plug wires get loose in the caps. Not to thread derail, but I'm curious if there is anything to be gained by removing the inline resistor to get more energy to the plug?

    The Downside:
    The resistor cap and plug add 10K and 5K of resistance. This drops the current delivered to the plug. By reducing the current, there is less electrical noise emitted by the ignition system, more heat generated by the resistance and less energy delivered to the plug (think in terms of current here). But its very likely the load in watts goes down with these resistors in place and the ECM or Coils may lack the balls to run without the series resistors. So this could all go horrible wrong and lead to a misfire. You see what I don't know is if the ECU and Coil packs have the energy to run w/out that 10K resistor plug cap?

    If this was purely from a noise suppression iussue it seems a better choice would have been a shielded plug wire as the CAP and plug are shielded (EMI wise) by being recessed in the head. I just don't see why they did both? The head is canceling the radiant EMI however there is an exposed wire that's acting like an antenna as its a solid core non-suppression wire tossing out EMI noise everywhere. So it almost seems like they did it for the sake of keeping the energy demand low.

    I guess my point is the coil output is so feeble with a mere 0.028" max gap that it needs all the energy it can muster at the plugs gap. Hint most HEI coils fire plugs gapped at 0.50" or better these days so this seems weak!
    Thoughts anyone?

    Other things of interest:
    NGK DENSO BOSCH BRISK SPARK PLUG TEST - YouTube

    Some thoughts on Ethonal based fuel.
    NGK Spark Plugs USA

    Read up on this:
    NGK Spark Plugs USA
    NGK sparkplugs information and specification

    08 and lower
    CR9EK // 4548 // OEM Gap = 0.032" // Iriduim # CR9EIX gap 0.032"

    09
    CR9E // 6263 // OEM Gap = 0.028" // Iriduim # CR9EIX gap 0.028" // single ground wire

    While here lets throw Torque Spec:
    17.5 Nm (1.75 mkgf, 12.7 ftlbf)
    08 Raven w/a few mods...
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  12. #19
    FinalImpact (OP)
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    Re: A cure for bad vibrations, spark plug caps!!

    Very interesting from an Aviation thread....

    Missing picture is is showing the internal resistor which is breaking down and failing. See link below if this peaks your interest.
    Excerpt: <<PASTE>>
    As you can see in this photo of a two month old Champion RHB32S fine-wire spark plug with only 110 hours in service, there is corrosion on the conductive surfaces. When it was new two months ago, the resistance was normal, about 1500 ohms. But today, this spark plug’s resistance is over 12,000 ohms! That means some of the spark energy isn’t passing through to the electrodes. This spark plug was causing elevated CHT’s in the affected cylinder.
    Installing new spark plugs resolved the CHT problem, and stopped the intermittent vibration problems at low rpm.

    Note: CHT is Cylinder Head Temperature....

    Full link: Spark plugs. Why you should check yours, today! | Platinum Aviation Blog

    Excerpt: <<PASTE>>
    For the past two years Tempest has been educating the general aviation industry on the importance of checking the resistance of spark plugs. Here are some common myths and misconceptions about spark plugs and resistors:

    1. Resistors are used in spark plugs to reduce radio noise.

    False - resistors, although they may help with radio noise reduction, are used primarily to reduce the electrode erosion effects caused by capacitance after-fire. This is a known after-firing of the plug caused by the residual energy built up through the harness leads and magnetos.


    Granted we are NOT running magnetos so I have some research to do...

    Just thought I would share. We are not alone. In this thread there is mention of why those resistors are in there. It's about the field collapsing and reducing the spark plugs life as well as noise suppression.

    My POINT: how many of you with vibration issues have a fault in one of these areas, plugs, wires, cap, or power to your coils, coils or ECM, thus causing increased vibrations but minimal drive-ability complaints? IMO - way too many complaints thus something is being overlooked!
    Last edited by FinalImpact; 06-05-2013 at 03:48 PM.
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  14. #20
    No ride is too far... Vibration! A cure for bad vibrations, Spark Plug Caps!! motojoe122's Avatar
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    Re: A cure for bad vibrations, spark plug caps!!

    Quote Originally Posted by FinalImpact View Post
    Eat your words broooother!!!!! :BLAA: haha!
    Geez, not sure how I missed this Yeah, I'll take it with a spooon full of Techron:BLAA: I think I still have some random pics from when I did this, but they are on my phone. Not sure if it will U/L.
    Last edited by motojoe122; 06-05-2013 at 06:23 PM.
    Keeping the waterways safe since 1996.

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