Slow to go Fast?

Misti · Sep 30, 2013

We often hear people say that you have to go "Slow to go fast." (I say it too)

What does this mean to you? Have you implemented this, or tried to implement this strategy in your riding at all?

Jblk9695 · Sep 30, 2013

Slow down and you will be smoother and will go faster than if you are on the edge and making mistakes.
Same theory applied when I raced RC cars, if you quit trying so hard and slowed down your lap times would drop because you were smoother and going faster even though it looked faster when you were out of shape

Jerry

lawlberg · Sep 30, 2013

Jerry nailed part of it - mine isn't as pretty but here goes.

When you're in the twisties with other cars/bikes, go slow on the straights so you can catch them in the turns, if you haul a$s on the straights you'll be stuck behind them going slow in the turns. So go slow when it is boring so you can enjoy yourself when it's not!

yamihoe · Sep 30, 2013

to parrot jerry: by slowing down you can make yourself a smoother rider, your throttle inputs, your transitions and how you approach a corner isnt as aggressive or reckless.
You end up being faster because the hooligans all get pulled over and you pass them while they are sittin there

:BLAA:

SweaterDude · Sep 30, 2013

a slower line is tighter line but can be the faster line.

slow in fast out.

DFL is also faster than DNF.

Motogiro · Sep 30, 2013

I agree that slower more intentional movement can give an advantage keeping the bike more stable. Harsher changes can cause anomaly that takes time to correct (if correctable) and will add time to your course.

And Misti! When are you coming down here to SoCal for a ride with us!?

Neal · Oct 1, 2013

Misti said:
We often hear people say that you have to go "Slow to go fast." (I say it too)

What does this mean to you? Have you implemented this, or tried to implement this strategy in your riding at all?

What it means is: When you are riding at 100 percent you have nothing left in your head to focus on improving.

Dialing back will free up attention space for self-analysis while you are riding so you can make improvements in the future.

greg · Oct 1, 2013

simon crafers approach is to try and make the straights as long as possible, it's also about maintaining speed in the corners, so there is a bit of a balance as you can't take them too tight

on a slower bike you will learn to maintain your corner speed more, rather than relying on the engine to power you out of corners

Cloggy · Oct 1, 2013

a lot of good stuff here :thumbup:
In a S bend sacrificing speed on the first corner often helps with your positioning and general control going in to the second corner, allowing you to get more speed going out.

ped · Oct 1, 2013

It means relax and have fun.

Nelly · Oct 1, 2013

I think it specifically refers to setting up your entry and exit of corners. Obviously sighting runs on new tracks or local routes should be taken slowly to learn the road.
I have done it myself on favourite bits of road and roundabouts. If I enter fast at the edge of my ability, by the time I have allowed my brain, sight and bum hole to catch up 20+ mph in speed is lost with a dubious corner exit at the wrong rev range of the chosen gear. This is because I have been trying to make too many inputs mid corner to try and tighten my apex.

Setting yourself up in plenty of time for the turn in allows a more relaxed cornering experience, no extra inputs to upset the bike geometry allowing you to get on the power quicker and drive out of the apex like a redlining God/ess.

Paradoxically the term really only describes a technique for getting you and the the bike set up for the corner, Mr Rossi's slow in is still >50 times quicker than my fast out. The smoother you become at setting yourself up the faster you will go, quite a nice byproduct.

Nelly

FIZZER6 · Oct 1, 2013

Smoothness and fluidness in transitions, braking and throttle control will maintain bike balance and help your lap times!

How many racing videos have you seen where an experienced rider would get blown away in the straights by more powerful bikes but catch them in the corners every time?

Misti · Oct 1, 2013

Jblk9695 said:
Slow down and you will be smoother and will go faster than if you are on the edge and making mistakes.
Same theory applied when I raced RC cars, if you quit trying so hard and slowed down your lap times would drop because you were smoother and going faster even though it looked faster when you were out of shape

Jerry

Good points! I think you nailed it here by saying that you will go faster if you are not riding at the ragged edge and making a lot of mistakes. It's interesting how when you try to go fast it rarely works out for you.

Concentrating on your skills and riding relaxed will help you be faster overall.

How do you know if you are riding at the edge though? Sometimes I have students that are riding all crazy and bent out of shape and on the verge of crashing but when I pull them over to warn them they have no idea that they are riding on the edge.

Motogiro said:
I agree that slower more intentional movement can give an advantage keeping the bike more stable. Harsher changes can cause anomaly that takes time to correct (if correctable) and will add time to your course.

And Misti! When are you coming down here to SoCal for a ride with us!?

I'd love to come down and ride!!! Maybe when my kids are older, they are 4 and 2 right now and still very needy for mommy! Hubby hasn't quite mastered overnights yet...

aclayonb · Oct 1, 2013

We use this term in the military all the time. We do timed exams on weapons disassembly, recitations of regulations, complex manual tasks, etc. The phrase "slow is smooth, smooth is fast" is very true in almost anything. You can hurry through something and likely do it wrong or you can be methodical and do it right the first time. This is especially important when you only get one try to do something right - ie a complex turn or set of maneuvers at speeds that mean maiming or death for failure.

Any idiot can rip the throttle and lay the bike down like a moron... or pull a wheelie... but the guy that does everything right - every time - with no sense of urgency or rushing, will be the guy that does it correctly under pressure because he's mentally trained himself (herself) to do it right every time.

I've seen guys tear apart an MK19 grenade machine gun to base components in well under a minute but they can't do it that fast every time. The guy that does it 1000 times correctly but takes 2 minutes each time will normally beat out the speed maniac in a timed trial.

This is why SWAT teams to magazine drills over and over and over, why martial artists practice strikes thousands of times, why sprinters practice snaps, why pro riders take the same turns over and over again.... because practice makes perfect and you don't start practicing at 'combat' speed.

MG-242 · Oct 2, 2013

Good thread! :thumbup:

The first time I heard the quote was in Kenny Robert's book, "The Techniques of Motor Cycle Road Racing". Nick Ienatsch also mentions it in his "Sport-Riding Techniques". Two excellent books IMO.

Assuming we are talking about high performance riding and not street riding, what is the overall goal and what is the most important part of the turn? What is the goal at that most important part of the turn and how will that help you achieve your overall goal?

krid80 · Oct 2, 2013

Misti said:
We often hear people say that you have to go "Slow to go fast." (I say it too)

What does this mean to you? Have you implemented this, or tried to implement this strategy in your riding at all?

I always say "smooth is fast" so I suppose I would translate your statement as saying you have to be intentional in your motorcycle control. Take a wider setup for a corner entry and you'll carry higher speed due to not having such a course correction mid corner. As was stated above by others, less dramatic changes of direction will appear slower, and oftentimes feel slower due to not requiring as much rider input, but in fact you'll see several things:
1. wear and tear will decrease due to less stress on parts in a violent change of direction (including braking and accelerating)
2. lean angle will increase without you realizing how low you are. I've often found myself dragging hard parts when I didn't feel like I was low enough.
3. lap times and corner speeds will be faster.

Anyhow, that's my take on it. But what do I know. :thumbup:

Misti · Oct 7, 2013

aclayonb said:
We use this term in the military all the time. We do timed exams on weapons disassembly, recitations of regulations, complex manual tasks, etc. The phrase "slow is smooth, smooth is fast" is very true in almost anything. You can hurry through something and likely do it wrong or you can be methodical and do it right the first time. This is especially important when you only get one try to do something right - ie a complex turn or set of maneuvers at speeds that mean maiming or death for failure.

Any idiot can rip the throttle and lay the bike down like a moron... or pull a wheelie... but the guy that does everything right - every time - with no sense of urgency or rushing, will be the guy that does it correctly under pressure because he's mentally trained himself (herself) to do it right every time.

I've seen guys tear apart an MK19 grenade machine gun to base components in well under a minute but they can't do it that fast every time. The guy that does it 1000 times correctly but takes 2 minutes each time will normally beat out the speed maniac in a timed trial.

This is why SWAT teams to magazine drills over and over and over, why martial artists practice strikes thousands of times, why sprinters practice snaps, why pro riders take the same turns over and over again.... because practice makes perfect and you don't start practicing at 'combat' speed.

Some really good points here. I think if you put the time in doing it methodically and RIGHT, then the speed will come naturally and you won't have to work so hard at it.

aclayonb · Oct 7, 2013

More importantly than working hard to do it right is simply being able to do it right naturally.

The purpose is the achievement of Shibui, or effortless perfection (depending on the translation). Might be reaching a bit deep here but that word best describes the way I understand it.

Monica A · Oct 15, 2013

[because he's mentally trained himself (herself) to do it right every time.
.[/QUOTE]

Thank you!!:cheer::rockon::cheer:

Us ladies want to go slow to go fast too.

What that phrase means to me is to be smooooth with down shifting (if necessary), brake and throttle when entering and exiting a corner. Especially important is to be looking through the corner.

FZ09Bandit · Oct 15, 2013

Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast.

How I do things, if you get a hang up and have to retry because your in a hurry. Then it was pointless.

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