WTF is that in my exhaust???? Could it be Piston?

FinalImpact · Jun 15, 2013

Lets hope not!!!

Nutshell; the Fiz got a set of 2 brothers Cans. I didn't pull the battery as I wanted to know if the temps, power, performance would be hurt if it could breath better. Well, yes they were. Temps went up slightly, performance dropped a tad, (less low end tq IMO) but overall it rand pretty much the same.
After about 60 miles it seemed to be her old self with a much louder voice!

Today I logged about 200++ miles and when I got home I saw this!!! Its time to pull the plus and look them over. I did swap to different brand of fuel, from Chevron to Shell - both are plus. Not wanting to scare myself, but that nearly looks like aluminum!!! New exhaust flow more, it could have stirred some poo up and out of the the CAT????

THoughts, ideas, Tune? CO Adjust is very likely....

Oh - if you touch the white stuff its vapor.... gone very easily....

TownsendsFJR1300 · Jun 15, 2013

Likely piece's of the exhaust gasket (silvery, long round "gasket") that goes inbetween the cat and the new exhaust. Could also be what packing they use inside the mufflers, any loose stuff is getting blown out.

Your not going to loose a piston with new mufflers...

You can check you plugs and do a compression test but I wouldn't be overly concerned about it, especially if its running fine..

FinalImpact · Jun 15, 2013

I never heard it ping EVER, and the temps are back to normal so i find it hard to believe it leaned it out enough to melt a piston. I will likely pull at least one plug. She was used pretty hard today. We had a good time. The ceramic coating is finally done baking I think. It stopped stinking at least.

True to the who knows what's coming out of those newer cans particle wise, also the mid pipe to Y pipe is sealed w/silicone. Think that dust could be evaporated superheated silicone??

Thanks Scott!

Motogiro · Jun 15, 2013

Probably some left over particulate from the perf. cylinder.

TownsendsFJR1300 · Jun 16, 2013

I don't think silicone sealer would ever look like that unless SUPER HEATED(way beyind exhaust temps). Its likely just excess packing in the mufflers blowing out. You could e-mail the manufacturer and ask.

*If their fibers, you should be able to pick up some small pieces on a wet finger and roll them up. If their aluminum and you roll them with your fingers, they'll of course be hard and won't roll up break apart...

I suspect if you blow it out with an air compressor(or just wipe it out) it will be considerably cleaner, if not clean on the next ride...

BTW, are the mufflers designed/required to be repacked after a certain time?

FinalImpact · Jun 16, 2013

TownsendsFJR1300 said:
I don't think silicone sealer would ever look like that unless SUPER HEATED(way beyind exhaust temps). Its likely just excess packing in the mufflers blowing out. You could e-mail the manufacturer and ask.

*If their fibers, you should be able to pick up some small pieces on a wet finger and roll them up. If their aluminum and you roll them with your fingers, they'll of course be hard and won't roll up break apart...

I suspect if you blow it out with an air compressor(or just wipe it out) it will be considerably cleaner, if not clean on the next ride...

BTW, are the mufflers designed/required to be repacked after a certain time?

Most catalyst temps are around 600C range! Had to look, aluminum melts at 660C! So we have 1112F vs 1220F just saying.... Oddly enough EGT are typically around 1100 - 1300 if not to lean and textile grade fiberglass is in the neighborhood of 1200C (2192F), so it shouldn't be melting.

blah blah blah - what ever is in the tail is dust. If you touch it, it just smears into nonexistence.

And yes, the pack calls for replacement every THIRTY HOURS!!!! haha! like anyone tears there exhaust off every month! lol Hence the reason in other threads I mention you CAN'T COMPARE cans as they all different based upon hours of use on them! Thread was what material sounds better....

so be it... just curious if anyone had seen stuff like that before

TownsendsFJR1300 · Jun 16, 2013

FinalImpact said:
Most catalyst temps are around 600C range! Had to look, aluminum melts at 660C! So we have 1112F vs 1220F just saying.... Oddly enough EGT are typically around 1100 - 1300 if not to lean and textile grade fiberglass is in the neighborhood of 1200C (2192F), so it shouldn't be melting.

blah blah blah - what ever is in the tail is dust. If you touch it, it just smears into nonexistence.

And yes, the pack calls for replacement every THIRTY HOURS!!!! haha! like anyone tears there exhaust off every month! lol Hence the reason in other threads I mention you CAN'T COMPARE cans as they all different based upon hours of use on them! Thread was what material sounds better....

so be it... just curious if anyone had seen stuff like that before

Jeeez, thirty hours???? No thank you... Have a great week!

darius · Jun 16, 2013

Your bike seemed to be in top shape Saturday. I'd be surprised if it's farting out a piston, but at least you've got 3 more. :BLAA:

TownsendsFJR1300 · Jun 17, 2013

That stuff is probably remnants of Randy's cut down spark plug wires/caps!

Jessman23 · Jun 17, 2013

Since it seems like a vapor I'm guessing it is some unburnt fuel. The computer hasnt had a chance to reset itself to the correct A/F ratio to cope with the new exhaust. Since you put over 200 miles it should have had time to adjust itself and you can wipe this stuff off and it probably wont come back unless there actually is a problem. My friend had the same type of thing happen with his

FIZZER6 · Jun 17, 2013

Doesn't the 2008 FZ6 have an O2 sensor? If so, wouldn't that compensate for a new cat-back exhaust system so the bike would not run leaner?

TownsendsFJR1300 · Jun 17, 2013

FIZZER6 said:
Doesn't the 2008 FZ6 have an O2 sensor? If so, wouldn't that compensate for a new cat-back exhaust system so the bike would not run leaner?

It does have a sensor after the collector / cat (before the mid pipe/ second cat).

FinalImpact · Jun 17, 2013

Jessman23 said:
Since it seems like a vapor I'm guessing it is some unburnt fuel. The computer hasnt had a chance to reset itself to the correct A/F ratio to cope with the new exhaust. Since you put over 200 miles it should have had time to adjust itself and you can wipe this stuff off and it probably wont come back unless there actually is a problem. My friend had the same type of thing happen with his

Its not unburned fuel its some form of ash from something "else" being burned. Once touched, it just smears out. There is a haze light brown which you have to see in person that is the fuel.

FIZZER6 said:
Doesn't the 2008 FZ6 have an O2 sensor? If so, wouldn't that compensate for a new cat-back exhaust system so the bike would not run leaner?

Yes, it does. Based upon engine temps and performance, 30 miles did the bulk of the ECM adjustments and by 60 miles it was hard to tell the difference pre-exhaust vs post swap performance and temps.

FinalImpact · Jun 17, 2013

TownsendsFJR1300 said:
Your not going to loose a piston with new mufflers...

Hmm - - so you're saying No one needs a tune after changing how the engine breathes?

TownsendsFJR1300 said:
Likely piece's of the exhaust gasket (silvery, long round "gasket") that goes inbetween the cat and the new exhaust. Could also be what packing they use inside the mufflers, any loose stuff is getting blown out.

FWIW: Two Brother DOES NOT use the OEM gasket material to join the mid pipe to the tail pipe; Nor is it an option to use it. The joining flange will NOT accommodate it. Its a metal to metal slip fit. Its very unfortunate TB didn't enlarge their mating pipe to accommodate the OEM pipe gasket/seal. Its WAY BETTER than their setup and allows for minor misalignment and likely absorbs some vibration too.

Speaking of which - Scott, add this to your canned statement about vibration reduction. Proper alignment of the tail pipe/muffler section CAN REDUCE VIBRATIONS! I.E. the OEM exhaust has ample room to move once the bolts are loossend. Specifically the two larger socket cap bolts that hold the muffler to the chassis. If the rubber is under load vibrations are increased.

In short: people with vibration issues that can not be solved should loosen the muffler bolt and the exhaust clamp at the mid pipe to allow the muffler to settle to a neutral position and tighten the mid pipe and THEN THE muffler hanger bolts. It MAY reduce the load on the rubber isolation mounts (side load etc) which could reduce stress induced vibrations.

TownsendsFJR1300 · Jun 17, 2013

FinalImpact said:
Hmm - - so you're saying No one needs a tune after changing how the engine breathes?

That's NOT what I said. A simple muffler change will not fry a piston.., yes it breathing slightly more, unless you do much more than that, NO IT WON'T eat a piston.. I put OPEN Scorps on my stock FZ, (iridiiums only), no re-set, no aftermarket computer, stock air filter, bone stock. Runs like a raped ape, idles dead smoooth at 1,000 RPM's, will power wheelie, close to 50 MPG around town. NO "re-tune", no CO adjustments, original pistons. What are you going to tune after just a muffler change??

FWIW: Two Brother DOES NOT use the OEM gasket material to join the mid pipe to the tail pipe; Neither does Scorpion.Nor is it an option to use it. The joining flange will NOT accommodate it. Its a metal to metal slip fit. Its very unfortunate TB didn't enlarge their mating pipe to accommodate the OEM pipe gasket/seal. Its WAY BETTER than their setup and allows for minor misalignment and likely absorbs some vibration too.

My Scorps are set up the same way however mine has plenty of surface area for metal to metal clamping, no leaks, (didn't use sealer as its NOT required)

Speaking of which - Scott, add this to your canned statement about vibration reduction. What canned statement Re vibrations???Proper alignment of the tail pipe/muffler section CAN REDUCE VIBRATIONS! I.E. the OEM exhaust has ample room to move once the bolts are loossend. Specifically the two larger socket cap bolts that hold the muffler to the chassis. If the rubber is under load vibrations are increased.

I have that piece literally in my garage and it does NOT HAVE 1/4 the adjustment most aftermarket pipes have (it bolts direct to the sub frame, no slots, etc, TWO HOLES FOR TWO BOLTS. The stock muffler is one piece, the aftermarket many more (with many more variables in adjusting it). And of course, you can get more vibrations, if something is bolted up incorrectly, has an extra/uneven load on it, etc

In short: people with vibration issues that can not be solved should loosen the muffler bolt and the exhaust clamp at the mid pipe to allow the muffler to settle to a neutral position and tighten the mid pipe and THEN THE muffler hanger bolts. It MAY reduce the load on the rubber isolation mounts (side load etc) which could reduce stress induced vibrations. No question

Please post what re-tuning your going to do with just a muffler change(I'm assuming your NOT ADDING A power commander, etc..)

Re the silver muffler/pipe gasket, I stand corrected, there is none for the FZ, I did have one on my old 2005 KLR which I was thinking of.

Can you unknot your panties now, your bike is fine!!

FinalImpact · Jun 17, 2013

Re: WTF is that in my exhaust???? Alien Waste! FTW lol

FinalImpact said:
so be it... just curious if anyone had seen stuff like that before

/end thread - particles not identified as of this writing.

As for the vibration thing / add it to our bag of tricks to help others. Nothing more and not a dig. FFS - lighten up dude.. .. ..

NorCal FZ6 · Jun 17, 2013

I just noticed right now you posted. Absolutely no idea. Ran fine when I had it. The system was never used prior to being ceramic coated inside and out. All fiberglass packing was placed right back in cans and re-riveted.

and no I would absolutely do a engine tune after putting on the exhaust.

FinalImpact · Jun 17, 2013

NorCal FZ6 said:
I just noticed right now you posted. Absolutely no idea. Ran fine when I had it. The system was never used prior to being ceramic coated inside and out. All fiberglass packing was placed right back in cans and re-riveted.

and no I would absolutely do a engine tune after putting on the exhaust.

Thanks!
I'd say until about the 200 mile mark the ceramic was giving a "curing" type of hot smell every time I turned it off/parked. Runs great tho and sounds Damn Good! I was wondering if you had the cans apart before as there was no rivets but there was packing material. I guess that explains that!

So, you never saw that white dust like the photo up top?

NorCal FZ6 · Jun 17, 2013

No. No white dust at all. Yes the cans were taken apart, there ceramic coated inside and out. Just like the Y pipe. I could be wrong but the silicone could be burnin in. What about fiberglass from being re-packed? The extra packing was from purchasing more packing just so I get rivets specifically for the exhaust. That's when I found out Two Brothers updated the rivets. I sent pics to the manufacturer to guarantee I received the right rivets. That's when manufacturer stated the rivets in the packing kit was dated. They sent me all new rivets... No riveting was done until I confirmed the right rivets. Riveting process went flawless. Especially knowing the cans came back from being professionally ceramic coated. In other words I wasn't about to botch a rivet on freshly ceramic coated surface. I would say the exhaust is definately still breaking in.

Looking at pics. That white stuff was definitely not there before. I know, the db killers were never cleaned. I just took em out prior to selling. It does look like a vapor of some sort. *Other note when I ran the exhaust I had no down pipe catalytic converter.

TownsendsFJR1300 · Jun 18, 2013

NorCal FZ6 said:
I just noticed right now you posted. Absolutely no idea. Ran fine when I had it. The system was never used prior to being ceramic coated inside and out. All fiberglass packing was placed right back in cans and re-riveted.

and no I would absolutely do a engine tune after putting on the exhaust.

The system WAS Ceramic coated inside??? There was no mention earlier of this....

What engine tune would you do with a muffler change? Are you talking just a TB sync?
I'd really like to know as its been 4 years for me with my Scorps, (I have doen sync's since then, nothing else).

There's not much else to tune unless you have a Power Commander.

WTF is that in my exhaust???? Could it be Piston?

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