Kickstand dragging

Story time: Yesterday was the first time at a track for me and I gotta say... Wow, I'm in love. After years of riding, I will never know why I didn't do this sooner.

The question: So I'm coming around a left turn getting pretty low and my kickstand just grabs the concrete and scares the crap outta me, so I straiten up, and ride "calmly" into the grass off the track. After some self realization, I realize that my body position is all outta wack and that I need to be more off the seat and "making out" with the mirror with my body low and into the turn more. So I start working on body position and getting pretty low again and the kickstand grabs again off another turn and the same thing happened to his FZ too. My question is, if I took the kickstand off to acquire more lean angle, would that put me into a more dangerous position where there wont be any grip left and that is the only thing keeping me from low-siding? Or can I go without?

are you sure its not the feelers on the bottom of the pegs?

Chaotic29 said:

are you sure its not the feelers on the bottom of the pegs?

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I took those off. It felt like it would've been but one look at my buddies and my kickstand told a different story.

I would remove it for the track.
Also think about increasing your spring preload.

Nappa said:

I would remove it for the track.
Also think about increasing your spring preload.

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I already had them ordered (The springs) but didn't have time to drop them in before the track.

I'm gonna take it off before the next track day but the question still stands, after I remove it, what is to let me know that I'm losing turning effectiveness?

I also cut the casting where the side stand hinges so the stop allowed the stand to fold tighter to the bike giving greater clearance. The foot on my stand was already pre-ground perfectly at an angle

also consider stiffening your rear suspension, as you go around the corner the back of the bike is probably squatting down a bit decreasing clearance.

one of the reasons I got a dedicated track bike was so I don't need to worry about this stuff as much

Motogiro said:

I also cut the casting where the side stand hinges so the stop allowed the stand to fold tighter to the bike giving greater clearance. The foot on my stand was already pre-ground perfectly at an angle

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Sorry, but I'm having trouble envisioning what you're talking about. Are you talking about the mount itself without the kickstand on it? Cause I was thinking of removing the entire assembly and leaving the switch where it is or ziptieing it to the centerstand

To answer your question you wont know the limit till you get there. you will eaither "feel" the tyre squirming at the edge of its use or you will low side. also remember how low you was and check your tyres see how much edge grip you have left/ 10mm / 5mm / 1mm

Just like clutch muscle memory you learn lean angle muscle memory so you will know when your boddy is at full extent there is nothing left for the tyres to give you.

I would rather risk having no "sign" of lean angle with the stand hitting the track then actually having the stand hitting the track and scaring the poo out of me

greg said:

also consider stiffening your rear suspension, as you go around the corner the back of the bike is probably squatting down a bit decreasing clearance.

one of the reasons I got a dedicated track bike was so I don't need to worry about this stuff as much

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You mean moving my body more to the rear to decrease the load on the front forks and moving my CG as far back as I can? That would totally work but its kinda hard to do with a Top Saddlery seat with that giant lip. i also have new springs that are going in before I go back. As far as the track bike is concerned, I would love to own a dedicated track bike, but the female unit would highly disagree considering all my other hobbies. However, I'm thinking of turning the FZ into a dedicated track bike and just getting a different stock bike for an everyday rider.

KingY said:

To answer your question you wont know the limit till you get there. you will eaither "feel" the tyre squirming at the edge of its use or you will low side. also remember how low you was and check your tyres see how much edge grip you have left/ 10mm / 5mm / 1mm

Just like clutch muscle memory you learn lean angle muscle memory so you will know when your boddy is at full extent there is nothing left for the tyres to give you.

I would rather risk having no "sign" of lean angle with the stand hitting the track then actually having the stand hitting the track and scaring the poo out of me

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This is what worries me: http://i.imgur.com/ES7eVt0.jpg

I'm hitting the edge of the lip, And I presume the issue isn't the bike itself but the lack of lean angle I'm giving it. So I tried to improve on the lean angle and still hit it one more time. So it's either I screwed up again (which very likely is the case) or the kickstand is preventing me from going further. Its crazy because for the rest of the day, in every corner, I was scared that I was gonna hit it again and couldn't focus solely on form which is what I wanted

falcon6123 said:

Sorry, but I'm having trouble envisioning what you're talking about. Are you talking about the mount itself without the kickstand on it? Cause I was thinking of removing the entire assembly and leaving the switch where it is or ziptieing it to the centerstand

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If you look at the mechanism that the side stand folds on, you will see it is a heavier casting type metal. When the stand folds it has stops where it can't fold closed anymore. I ground mine with a die grinder so that the side stand foot folds up higher to the bike for better clearance.
Load up your rear spring! When you're in turn you may not notice it but you increase the load on the suspension which reduces clearances.

Motogiro said:

When you're in turn you may not notice it but you increase the load on the suspension which reduces clearances.

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Oh! Ok, I understand now, thanks!

I had the rear spring loaded to a "6" rather than the max "7" which is what ZI should've done. I'm gonna have to try that next time

falcon6123 said:

You mean moving my body more to the rear to decrease the load on the front forks and moving my CG as far back as I can? That would totally work but its kinda hard to do with a Top Saddlery seat with that giant lip. i also have new springs that are going in before I go back. As far as the track bike is concerned, I would love to own a dedicated track bike, but the female unit would highly disagree considering all my other hobbies. However, I'm thinking of turning the FZ into a dedicated track bike and just getting a different stock bike for an everyday rider.

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I mean as you go around a corner, centripetal force is basically going to increase the force of your bike on the suspension, making it sit lower, especially with progressive suspension on the FZ6. This reduces the clearance of the sidestand.

Tbh track bike can be had quite cheap, and they usually come with lots of trick bits and spares thrown in

I've found corners that have any kind of banking allows my boots/pegs to touch over 50mph. This is purely suspension compression due to loading in the corner and my bike is firm for comp damping and has 32mm front / 28mm rear sag. If your suspension is stock, its VERY soft for track use.

Front sag on virgin forks is upwards of 42+ mm depending on your weight. Add to this that it lacks proper compression damping and your likely loading the suspension down WAY MORE than you think. Throw some zip ties on the stanchion tubes (loose so the fork seal can move them) and take some lamps. How much of the bikes travel have you used? This is harder to do on the rear as the ZIP tie can be forced into the seal or into the bottom out cushion. Neither are good.


Sounds like you are staying well tucked so you might want to watch your own video and work on body positioning to keep the bike more up right.

Also - linear compression you see the exactly how much clearance is lost - i.e. from the frame going straight down. While leaned over, that same amount of linear compress can seriously compromise ground clearance.

You were looking for the limit, if that is your tire up there, you must be damn close to the point of no return!

FinalImpact said:

You were looking for the limit, if that is your tire up there, you must be damn close to the point of no return!

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Dont Get me wrong, it's not like I was actually trying to low side. I just want to get my form right and it turns out I was just pushing the bike more than working on form, a delicate balance.

^^ Tell me about your suspension setup. All stock or something else?

FinalImpact said:

^^ Tell me about your suspension setup. All stock or something else?

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All stock now but I'm dropping in new springs that work with my weight and emulators tomorrow. I've just been too lazy to put my bike back together from the track.

As far as the rear, its stock.

I strongly recommend a new rear shock. I was constantly hitting the the peg feelers until I upgraded to a basic Ohins rear shock (the front already had intiminator valves and heavier spirings). It is well worth spending a few $$$ to have a competent suspension specialist do the intial setup. It is also a good idea to have a competent racer who is approximately your weight take the bike around the track for a few laps. That is how I found out my preload needed to be stiffer (half a turn for me). Made a big difference.

Other posters have mentioned body position. Try focusing on pushing the bike away from you when entering a corner. It feels weird but the whole idea is keep the bike as upright as possible to increase the contact patch and decrease the chance of running out of tire.