Bike Died on the Ride Home!

My trusty Yammaha (2004 FZ6 with 39,000 miles) let me down tonight. On the ride home it VERY suddenly quit running. First the engine light, tried to re-start but no go, just clicking and the oil light went on. Was at a 4 way stop so turned off the street and hit the 4 way flashers which very quickly became faint. Called wife and asked her to call AAA - guess what, they don't cover motorcycles!!!! Unless you pay more! So I pushed my bike the couple of miles home. Not fun at all, particularly for someone as old as I am. :-(

History: Last Friday went out to a few places and leaving the last place noticed the bike was very slow cranking - almost didn't start. Saturday synced the throttle bodies, which involved some period of idling for it to warm up. Afterwards tried ti start, would start to crank then just clicking. No problem battery is bad as it is over 4 years old. Off to Cycle Gear and bought a new battery. Rode some Saturday afternoon but not on Sunday. This week rode to work which is 20 minutes with about half in stop and go traffic, the ride home is 30 minutes on mostly interstate. Tonight took the non-interstate way home and had lots of traffic with lots of stop and go. Battery (that's the new battery) died about 2 miles from home. When I bought the battery I did not charge it, just put the acid in it, checked the voltage (12.75V) and installed it.

What is it: Error code 46 displayed and the battery voltage was 7.5V when I was able to check it. Tried to charge the battery in the bike but was not working too well so pulled it out and it has been charging for the last couple of hours and is at 12.8 volts currently. Schumacher charger/trickle charger. Checked the stator winding resistance - hard to tell but looks to be in the range of specs - lowest range is 200 ohms. Shorting the leads gives 0.7 to 0.8 ohms and checking the resistance is 0.9 to 1.0 ohms which is pretty close as best I can measure. Don't have a way to check the diodes/regulator. Have checked fuses - look OK none blown and connectors I have inspected all look very good with no corrosion.

Will try to buy a Triumph Daytona 675/Triumph Speed Tripple/Yamah FZ6 tomorrow but if that fails will buy a regulator. If you believe the new bike part I have a great ocean view lot . . . Hope to avoid buying a stator coil.

Edit: HELP, any suggestions?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gfuF9Stpnw]FZ6 battery voltage with engine speed - YouTube[/ame]

I do believe final impact had made a mention that if the idle drops below 1300 the battery does not charge. Maybe if you were in that stop and go traffic and coasting with the clutch out or stopped that battery just didn't charge itself and like a new phone battery if you don't give it a good charge at the start then it dies faster.

http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-electrical/47167-does-battery-charge-idle.html

PhotoAl said:

Will try to buy a Triumph Daytona 675/Triumph Speed Tripple/Yamah FZ6 tomorrow but if that fails will buy a regulator.

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What'd you say about battery problems???? :BLAA: :BLAA: :BLAA:

I don't know what you age is But we can all rest assured 2 miles in Boots Would SUCK!

This is where I encourage everyone to know the limits of their bike. Do you have the Dual headlight mod and were you running any other accessories? If these are true it may be as simple as the battery simply lost ground (ah charge that is) over time and shut down. But I'm having a hard time accepting the system didn't fight back a little more.

As for the 46 - Power supply to the FI system relay is not normal. That sounds like its last breath it could record before it went down. Of course there is a long laundry list of things to consider but lets not go there. If it were mine I'd fire it up with a volt meter and watch it idle, hold it steady above 3500 and see what that voltage does. If anything seems amiss, pull the seat and tank and examine every connection for damage before leaving the house!

If you have a meter that can capture the low, average and peak, you should enable that function. I'm pretty sure you know the drill but with the previous battery being laid to rest and now this. The Speed Triple will require payments for while but we all support change! :thumbup: lol - I suspect either A) you added a new load it can't handle or B) something isn't right and you will see it drop form 12.8V to way less at idle. Did you have heated gear on? Its 43F here today! Give us some more detail. . . .

Sorry you had to push the kid home but glad you're safe!

In addition to the suspect regulator on the FZ6 I also have a completely working regulator - the Mrs.

Did the dual headlioght mod years ago with no issues, no recent changes, current thought is the regulator went south and is very marginal so it does OK when riding on the interstate but can't handle the slower riding. Have an LED taillight and an LED extra brake light but those two together should be less than stock taillight. No heated gear. The stop and go was idle then to 4 or 5 K then idle more etc. Charging battery and will try it in the morning and update. Going to try and buy a regulator also but may check the voltage before taking that step. Something is certainly changed. The push home was tough in the boots, should have been doing more exercise this year.

I don't know if this is your problem and because it clicks it might not be. However, it could be something worth checking. After a few months of owning my bike, it would suddenly die (normally going down a very steep hill that is a few miles long going to school) and would have to pull off the highway and wiggle stuff until it started. After some searching I found that my kill switch was corroded and broken inside. Therefore it would work some times. So my trick was to clean the contacts, one of which was bent out of line so I straightened it, and then put a thin piece of plastic on the side of the button so it would keep the contacts connected. This way I could still use my kill switch and not have to worry about the contacts falling out to the side as before.

So if it just suddenly died with no warning, this could be something to check. Doesn't sound like your entire problem but could be a part of it.

I am useless at electrical issues, but I do have one suggestion: get AMA! It's cheap ( less than 40/year) and works like AAA for motorcycles.. in addition to many other benefits and it supports a great cause (they fight for our rights).

charge the battery up, and use a multi meter and test the R/R and generator, could also be something drawing too much power from the system, but I think that may be unlikely, especially if it's standard.

my bets would be on the R/R or generator, easy enough to test. You can unbolt the R/R with the tank lifted up, no need to remove it as per haynes. You can unplug the generator from the R/R and test that separately too.

Thanks for the AMA suggestion will do that TODAY!

Update - charged the battery overnight, put back in started and checked the voltage. With the ignition off it is 13.15V, at idle it was 12.75V and at about 4,500 RPM it was 13.05V. Looks like it is charging just a little and needs some healthy RPM's to charge. Probably why it would be OK when on the interstate but not the stop and go. Going to ride to work anyway cause it took 4 days of riding to fail before so should be able to get one day in.

measure the AC output of the stator (unplugged with the bike running), it should be 30-90V depending on revs across all 3 wire pair combinations.

If that's right then it's almost certainly the R/R that's died.

greg said:

measure the AC output of the stator (unplugged with the bike running), it should be 30-90V depending on revs across all 3 wire pair combinations.

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I agree with this.

greg said:

If that's right then it's almost certainly the R/R that's died.

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But not with this. Why do you think its DOA?

If a load is applied (lighting, running the bike) and its output is proper for the load, Nothing died and it was simply discharged due to circumstances.

Needless to say I am have skeptical of of the R/R.

FinalImpact said:

But not with this. Why do you think its DOA?

If a load is applied (lighting, running the bike) and its output is proper for the load, Nothing died and it was simply discharged due to circumstances.

Needless to say I am have skeptical of of the R/R.

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if it's outputting 13.05V then it sounds like the charging system isn't producing enough voltage/power, I'd expect it to be in the 13.8-14.5V range.

Even if it was a duff battery, I would expect the voltage to be correct.

my logic is that is if it's not charging then there's a problem with the chargine system, either the generator or R/R. If you can show it's not the generator then it must be the R/R, or a bad connection from the charging system to the battery.

greg said:

if it's outputting 13.05V then it sounds like the charging system isn't producing enough voltage/power, I'd expect it to be in the 13.8-14.5V range.

Even if it was a duff battery, I would expect the voltage to be correct.

my logic is that is if it's not charging then there's a problem with the chargine system, either the generator or R/R. If you can show it's not the generator then it must be the R/R, or a bad connection from the charging system to the battery.

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Details, I blew it, I coulda swore I saw 14.05 until I read that again and saw your post here. Agreed! Output is low! Forgive my oversight please. . .

Thanks for all of the input. Road the bike to work today, when arrived at home checked the battery voltage and it was 12.75V which is down from where it was this morning (13.15V) so it is not getting enough charge. Ordered a regulator from the stealership today and it will be here Monday. Just checked the output of the stator, between 5,000 and 6,000 RPM have over 60V between 1 and 3 have over 60V, between 2 and 3 have over 60V but between 1 and 2 only have a few volts. If it is a two pole machine then it looks like good output but if it is a three pole machine I may have a problem. My plan is to charge the battery and replace the regulator on Monday. If still have problems then will replace the stator. Feel better knowing I can ride it OK as long as I dont have long periods of idling/low RPM. Thanks for all the input!

Erci said:

I am useless at electrical issues, but I do have one suggestion: get AMA! It's cheap ( less than 40/year) and works like AAA for motorcycles.. in addition to many other benefits and it supports a great cause (they fight for our rights).

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Thanks Eric, I just did it. It's base price of $49 per year auto-renew to get roadside or $147 for 3 years. I did the extra $10 donation to fight for rider rights for $59 per year for autorenew.

When I went down we were 45 miles from home. I asked the insurance lady if I had any roadside assistance and she was silent for a second. I just laughed and said it sounds like I'm on my own, and she was like unfortunately there is no roadside assistance for motorcycles.

I don't plan on going down again, and I hope I never have to use my AMA card

PhotoAl said:

Thanks for all of the input. Road the bike to work today, when arrived at home checked the battery voltage and it was 12.75V which is down from where it was this morning (13.15V) so it is not getting enough charge. Ordered a regulator from the stealership today and it will be here Monday. Just checked the output of the stator, between 5,000 and 6,000 RPM have over 60V between 1 and 3 have over 60V, between 2 and 3 have over 60V but between 1 and 2 only have a few volts. If it is a two pole machine then it looks like good output but if it is a three pole machine I may have a problem. My plan is to charge the battery and replace the regulator on Monday. If still have problems then will replace the stator. Feel better knowing I can ride it OK as long as I dont have long periods of idling/low RPM. Thanks for all the input!

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It's a 3 phase generator so they should all be the same. It sounds like this might be at least one of your problems (you would need to check the r/r once the generator is working). One other test you can do is check that there's no continuity from the 3 stator wires to the engine case. You can also measure resistance across the wire pairs, which should be around 0.5 ohms. Both these tests are with the engine switched off.

A new stator it's pretty expensive from Yamaha, but you might be able to get one from a breakers or eBay. I also made a guide on how to rewind it yourself off you fancy going down that route.

You can probably get away with short journeys of less than an hour provided you charge the battery every time, but I suspect it will be discharging even at higher rpms. There's also a chance you could damage your battery of you keep discharging it too much.

Thanks, Eric going to join AMA today.
Thanks greg, from what you say it appears the stator is bad which probably mean I have bought a regulator and a battery I don't need. The regulator will be here on Monday and I will be able to see if it charges. Have checked the stator leads to ground and there were none. Will order the stator from Ron Ayers which is what I should have done with the regulator. You are correct about the battery discharging slightly but my commute is 15 to 20 minutes in the morning and max of 30 in the afternoon. I will probably take the longer but faster way home - it's longer distance but same time. Also have a cage if necessary. Only working three days this week and then off for Christmas and New Years. Going to rebuild the front forks and brakes so will have something to do

On another note this had made me hurry up my thoughts of a new bike. Going to look at a 2012 FZ8 and a 2008 CBR600RR. The CBR has more miles on it than I would like and may just go for a new one.

Sorry I meant to say there should be no continuity between the wires and the engine case, if there was then something is obviously shorted out.

From the sounds of it one of the coils might have burnt out. It will probably charge a little, but overall the battery will be discharging.

If you take the generator out (you might as well leave it in the housing) then you might be able to check visually if one of the coils is burnt. You don't need to drain the engine oil, but a little bit of oil might come out when you take it off, I was able to reuse the gasket too. A light tap with a rubber mallet will help it come out, but it's held in magnetically so might need a little tug.

Here's my guide on re-winding it, and a few things I noted along the way:
http://www.600riders.com/forum/how-tos/37991-how-re-build-your-stator.html#post406709

Here's what a burnt coil might look like:

PhotoAl said:

Thanks, Eric going to join AMA today.
Thanks greg, from what you say it appears the stator is bad which probably mean I have bought a regulator and a battery I don't need. The regulator will be here on Monday and I will be able to see if it charges. Have checked the stator leads to ground and there were none. Will order the stator from Ron Ayers which is what I should have done with the regulator. You are correct about the battery discharging slightly but my commute is 15 to 20 minutes in the morning and max of 30 in the afternoon. I will probably take the longer but faster way home - it's longer distance but same time. Also have a cage if necessary. Only working three days this week and then off for Christmas and New Years. Going to rebuild the front forks and brakes so will have something to do

On another note this had made me hurry up my thoughts of a new bike. Going to look at a 2012 FZ8 and a 2008 CBR600RR. The CBR has more miles on it than I would like and may just go for a new one.

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I dunno about you, but I never feel bad when buying a few extra parts to eliminate a problem as long as they aren't silly expensive. At least you know for the next 20-40k miles it shouldn't be a problem from those items.

I know everyone likes to be the perfect mechanic, but at the same time if you don't the entire testing and breakdown like the guys in the shop before you replace then you will replace some extra parts.

Pretty good info from all.
The charging system has a symbiotic relationship with all the parts in it's design.

Voltages can give us clues to some degree in trouble shooting where the problem is or if the system is charging. The other very important but less attended measurement is current. Most times we don't have access to shunts so as to measure current of the charging system or to a good load tester to test a battery's depth of charge. Current/amperage is the other factor that needs to be included in developing a picture of what is happening with our charging system. The first thing I recommend is fully charging the battery and then having it load tested. I've learned recently from a pro source who works with batteries (also a forum member) that modern load testers are much less accurate and can pass a battery when in fact it's a failure. This is due to the fact that the new testers are using an algorithm to calculate load test based on much lower current loads as apposed to the old testers that actually used true load versus time to develop an analysis of the battery's depth of charge. The new tester can be pretty inaccurate when it comes to passing a battery that would fail a true load test.

So first load test the battery.
Second: disconnect the stator plug and look for .22 to .34 ohms between each of the 3 wires. Set your ohm meter to the 1x setting. You should see no reading between any of the 3 legs to engine metal with your ohm meter.

There is not a factory test as far as voltage is concerned on output of the stator. This may be due to frequency versus input of different meters and how the front end of the meter reacts. If I were to specify a standard voltage reading using a meter I would use a full wave bridge rectifier and capacitor to develop a direct current voltage reading to establish a repeatable baseline. My Fluke meter versus my "Harbor Freight free with this coupon" meter can give two very different readings of these positive and negative waveforms from the stator. I have purchased a full wave bridge to make one of these just for sh1ts n giggles but the factory ohm test specs. should tell you what you want to know.

If your system is charging a battery that is not a fully charged, healthy battery, the voltage at 2000 rpm will be lower and does not always mean the charging system is at fault. Internal resistance or impedance of a battery changes as the battery charges, hence producing a different load to the the charging system.

Barring a bad ground and/or a poor connection to the battery itself you'll probably be successful at repairing the system if you change out the 3 main components but why not have a few diagnostic tools and knowledge under your belt for the future repairs and helping others. There are also the economics factors in not resorting to a shotgun approach in repairing your bike. Knowledge is also time x $$$$$!

I've had my FZ6 on the original battery and components in multiple, long stop n go traffic with a dual headlight mod and never had a failure to start.

Once again as always in these posts: Never jump start your bike from a car with it's motor running. You have a shunt type regulator and can toast it.