What the2wheels don't tell you LED stalks

FinalImpact

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I bought these tail stocks with the intent of keeping the rear OEM tail light in place as I simply wanted more light out the back during running and braking. 50% of that came true as I have more brake lights lights. However the running lights do not work when coupled to the OEM incandescent brake lamp.

The problem: the running lights turn off as soon as the 1157 bulb is inserted. Why you ask? Because the stalks leak current between the run and brake LEDs. Now many of you will assume that I F'd it up somehow but I assure you that is not the case. Perhaps I bought two bad stalks and they are not designed this way but here is what happens if you try and integrate these combination turn indicators, running lights, and brake light onto a system with a dual element incandescent lamp (aka 1157 bulb) they bench test fine, everything works and then you place a path to ground like the +12V input to the brake light element of the 1157 bulb and the stalks running lights go off. One solution may be a replace the 1157 incandescent with a LED style bulb. Depending on its design, it may work but I don't have one handy. I also tried placing a diode and resistor to ground in a shunt configuration but this didn't help either.

Bottom line - these don't appear to do what I intended to do. Not to mention the Evotech supplied plate LED light is wimpy at best. I'm not sure what I'm going to do on that, but it will be changed in the future. I don't need pulled over for something stupid like that. A match is brighter than that LED.

Here are some pictures of the work done to wire these in. I kept all changes to the removable wire harness in the tail section.

OEM tail vs EvoTech and the2Wheels
View attachment 41825

We need to fix this mess into a harness
View attachment 41826

Turn signal adapter cables (3 wire, we need white and black).
View attachment 41827

White to Green or Brown for left and right turn. Black is Ground. Red is not used.
View attachment 41828

Pair out the left and right turns and solder
View attachment 41829

Slide shrink tube on and heat to do the shrink thing
View attachment 41830

Cover completed joints again
View attachment 41831

Pair out Ground, Run, and Brake lights. Solder, cover and heat to shrink
View attachment 41832

Completed assembly ready to be installed. This all plugs into the left side of the FZ with no mods to the OEM harness.
View attachment 41833

That will plug into this:
View attachment 41834

EDIT / Update: OK - I finally dug up functioning diode (new unlike the ones I tried) and walla - a simple 1N4001 diode in series with the BRAKE power to the stalks and it works!
 
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FinalImpact

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The electrical connection info:

Here are the colors for The2Wheels signal STALKS themselves
They have FIVE wires with male bullet connectors;

Yellow = Running lights, grab +12v keyed active like running light to OEM 1157 bulb etc ((YAMAHA LIGHT BLUE))
Red = Brake lights, grab +12V brake on bike ((YAMAHA =YELLOW))
Black = Ground (common for Run and Brake) ((YAMAHA Black = Ground))

Turn signal wires are Green and Blue:
Green = Ground ((YAMAHA = BLACK))
Blue = Left or Right turn +12V from flasher
BLUE LEFT STALK goes to ((YAMAHA BROWN))
BLUE RIGHT STALK goes to ((YAMAHA GREEN))

View attachment 41837

TAG: Integrated LED Turn Signals built-in brake light, item 048-1_1pair
Specifications:
Body Color: Black
Lens Color: Clear
LED Color: Amber
5 Wires

Brake Light, Running Light, The2Wheels
 

FinalImpact

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I sent them an email so lets see what they have to say!

Hello,
Thanks for your information, I have already report this problem to my manufactory, I will reply you ASAP.

Best regards,

Matt


From: me
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 12:40 AM
To: 'Matt'
Subject: RE: [FWD: Defect or design; Integrated-LED-Turn-Signals-built-in-brake-light-048-1-1pair]

Hi Matt,

Yes I have confirmed those connections are by the colors below.
Yellow wire: running +12v
Red wire: brake light +12v brake only
Black is common ground for Run and Brake.
Blue is winker = +12V flasher
Green is Ground for Winker. Winkers are not affected by this.

Can you perform bench test below and tell me the results. Is this the same test you performed?

BENCH TEST 1
==============================
Using the configuration above, connect Black to ground and Yellow +12v to Run.
Now place an incandescent bulb from ground to the OPEN brake input.
On the two units I have the Running lights turn off and 30ma of current flow through the incandescent bulb. 60ma if paired together. This is NOT normal and it turns off the Stalks Run LEDs.
==============================


Current measurements by Pair:
1) Brake and Ground draw 127.8ma. Brake lights are on.
2) Run and Ground draw 16.3ma. Run lights are on.
3) License Plate LED draws 7.6ma.
4) Run and Plate Light draw 23.85ma.

BENCH TEST 2
==============================
Connect Lic Plate LED to Run LEDs Yellow wire. Do NOT apply power!
Connect ground wires for stalks and Lic Plate LED.
Connect Brake LEDs RED wire to +12V;
I observed that the Lic Plate LED powers on through current which is leaking through the Signal Stalks RUN leads.

Current Measured was 135.4ma
Why does it feed back and turn on my License Plate light? This is not Normal.
==============================

Thank you,
Randy


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 1:54 AM
To: me
Subject: RE: [FWD: Defect or design; Integrated-LED-Turn-Signals-built-in-brake-light-048-1-1pair]



Hello Randy,
Please confirm:
Yellow wire: running
Red wire: brake light
I have tested this turn signal at my side, it works fine

Best regards,

Matt

From: the2wheels
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 4:35 PM
To: the2wheels
Subject: [FWD: Defect or design; Integrated-LED-Turn-Signals-built-in-brake-light-048-1-1pair]


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Defect or design; Integrated-LED-Turn-Signals-built-in-brake-light-048-1-1pair
From: me
Date: Tue, April 24, 2012 11:37 am
To: the2wheels

14x LED Turn Signals x 2

Hello,
I bought these turn stalks and find that when used in conjunction with an incandescent bulb like an #1157 dual filament bulb found in many brake lighting applications as soon as I insert the #1157 bulb, the running lights from the “Turn-Signals-built-in-brake-light-048-1-1pair” turn off.

However if I leave the incandescent bulb out – (mind you this is not an option) the running lights on the turn stalks work fine. The application is a 2008 Yamaha FZ6. The Turn and Brake lights work fine.

Are they made this way or are these defective? They work fine if no Incandescent bulb is used and each were tested independently. They both do the same thing.

Please Advise.

Thank you


Invoice - Personal info - stuff deleted. . . .
1 | 048-1_1pair | Integrated LED Turn Signals built-in brake |
 
Last edited:

FinalImpact

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I sent them an email so lets see what they have to say!

Quote Box = Reply. . .

Hello,
Thanks for your information, I have already report this problem to my manufactory, I will reply you ASAP.

Best regards,

Matt

From: me
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 12:40 AM
To: 'Matt'
Subject: RE: [FWD: Defect or design; Integrated-LED-Turn-Signals-built-in-brake-light-048-1-1pair]

Hi Matt,

Yes I have confirmed those connections are by the colors below.
Yellow wire: running +12v
Red wire: brake light +12v brake only
Black is common ground for Run and Brake.
Blue is winker = +12V flasher
Green is Ground for Winker. Winkers are not affected by this.

Can you perform bench test below and tell me the results. Is this the same test you performed?

BENCH TEST 1
==============================
Using the configuration above, connect Black to ground and Yellow +12v to Run.
Now place an incandescent bulb from ground to the OPEN brake input.
On the two units I have the Running lights turn off and 30ma of current flow through the incandescent bulb. 60ma if paired together. This is NOT normal and it turns off the Stalks Run LEDs.
==============================


Current measurements by Pair:
1) Brake and Ground draw 127.8ma. Brake lights are on.
2) Run and Ground draw 16.3ma. Run lights are on.
3) License Plate LED draws 7.6ma.
4) Run and Plate Light draw 23.85ma.

BENCH TEST 2
==============================
Connect Lic Plate LED to Run LEDs Yellow wire. Do NOT apply power!
Connect ground wires for stalks and Lic Plate LED.
Connect Brake LEDs RED wire to +12V;
I observed that the Lic Plate LED powers on through current which is leaking through the Signal Stalks RUN leads.

Current Measured was 135.4ma
Why does it feed back and turn on my License Plate light? This is not Normal.
==============================

Thank you,
Randy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: the2wheels.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 1:54 AM
To: me
Subject: RE: [FWD: Defect or design; Integrated-LED-Turn-Signals-built-in-brake-light-048-1-1pair]



Hello Randy,
Please confirm:
Yellow wire: running
Red wire: brake light
I have tested this turn signal at my side, it works fine

Best regards,

Matt


From: the2wheels
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 4:35 PM
To: the2wheels
Subject: [FWD: Defect or design; Integrated-LED-Turn-Signals-built-in-brake-light-048-1-1pair]

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Defect or design; Integrated-LED-Turn-Signals-built-in-brake-light-048-1-1pair
From: me
Date: Tue, April 24, 2012 11:37 am
To: the2wheels

14x LED Turn Signals x 2

Hello,
I bought these turn stalks and find that when used in conjunction with an incandescent bulb like an #1157 dual filament bulb found in many brake lighting applications as soon as I insert the #1157 bulb, the running lights from the “Turn-Signals-built-in-brake-light-048-1-1pair” turn off.

However if I leave the incandescent bulb out – (mind you this is not an option) the running lights on the turn stalks work fine. The application is a 2008 Yamaha FZ6. The Turn and Brake lights work fine.

Are they made this way or are these defective? They work fine if no Incandescent bulb is used and each were tested independently. They both do the same thing.

Please Advise.

Thank you


Invoice - Personal info - stuff deleted. . . .
1 | 048-1_1pair | Integrated LED Turn Signals built-in brake
 

Motogiro

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We had discussed the possibility of leakage and maybe some diodes 1n4004 1 amp. These should block them from seeing each other...

If you haven't tried this configuration. give a whirl! :D

See attached
 

FinalImpact

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We had discussed the possibility of leakage and maybe some diodes 1n4004 1 amp. These should block them from seeing each other...

If you haven't tried this configuration. give a whirl! :D

See attached

Thanks Cliff. I guess the good news is the turns lamps are isolated so those are OK and do not impact the run/brake combo. Hell I was waiting for you to pipe in and suggest a relay to disconnect the 1157s ground or even a FET. haha!

Do i have this correct, are the labeled items the bikes output and the unlabeled diodes leads the input to the stalks? If so I tried this and it was no help.

Because these chaps offer no documentation on its design or function not to mention the actual color codes to connect it, I'm going to leave it be for a bit as I'm tired of messing with it. I did however leave it in a state that with another set of connectors I can tap into the harness without cutting or soldering anything. I am curious if dropping in LED style 1157 would be the easy fix?
 

Motogiro

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Thanks Cliff. I guess the good news is the turns lamps are isolated so those are OK and do not impact the run/brake combo. Hell I was waiting for you to pipe in and suggest a relay to disconnect the 1157s ground or even a FET. haha!

Do i have this correct, are the labeled items the bikes output and the unlabeled diodes leads the input to the stalks? If so I tried this and it was no help.

Because these chaps offer no documentation on its design or function not to mention the actual color codes to connect it, I'm going to leave it be for a bit as I'm tired of messing with it. I did however leave it in a state that with another set of connectors I can tap into the harness without cutting or soldering anything. I am curious if dropping in LED style 1157 would be the easy fix?

Yes anode on the bike wire side and cathode to the stalks. I would also use the 1n4004s on the turn sigs. because we really don't know what's up internally. If there's a possibility of one circuit seeing the other and it's not as simple as just a DC issue it could be a binary signal that's causing the problem. Make sure your tail light 1157 has a solid ground. Diode it all up. If you have some .01uf disc ceramic capacitors you could run those to ground to see if it's possibly a binary signal leak that could be quieted.

Almost sounds like your 1157 ground is floating. Chassis ground the 1157 ground and see if it behaves....
 
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FinalImpact

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Very true about Not knowing what they have going on inside. There is reverse bias protection and the brake and RUN leds are shared so its about current regulation that makes them bright for brake app and dim for run. Because they are shared I think it opens this door for failure and the design is flawed not taking this into account.

No floaters here. The first time I wired this I thought I made a mistake so I never finished the install. I finally had some time and went back to test it all and found no faults. I tested every connection on and off the bike. The ground is not the issue.

Like I said, as soon as the brake element of the 1157 creates a path to ground from the stalks Brake Input, 60ma of current leaks from the stalks brake lead through the incandescent bulb to ground. Thats when the stalks run lights turn off.

Can someone with an 1157 LED bulb measure in ohms the ground shell to the Brake element? Swap the leads and repeat.
 
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Motogiro

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:Flash: Don't you have pod lights! Are you floating them on your your flasher?????:Flash: :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

FinalImpact

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:Flash: Don't you have pod lights! Are you floating them on your your flasher?????:Flash: :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Yes and no. On all the time - no flash...
PS - the goal here is not to isolate the stalks from each other. Either stalk leaks enough to kill itself if there is potential for current flow through the brake incan on the brake circuit.

I think the key ingredient here is they used the same LEDs for both run and brake. In our mind we seperate them on circuit but they are the same. So the question is; what type of gate did they use for switching the power?

FWIW: the RUN and ground wires are like 16/18 gauge while the Brake wire is much smaller like 2/24gauge wire. So I'm thinking its just a trigger as you may have suspect already.
 

FinalImpact

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Still NO UPDATE from these guys. . . Probably on my own!

I sent them an email so lets see what they have to say!

Quote Box = Reply. . .



From: me
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 12:40 AM
To: 'Matt'
Subject: RE: [FWD: Defect or design; Integrated-LED-Turn-Signals-built-in-brake-light-048-1-1pair]

Hi Matt,

Yes I have confirmed those connections are by the colors below.
Yellow wire: running +12v
Red wire: brake light +12v brake only
Black is common ground for Run and Brake.
Blue is winker = +12V flasher
Green is Ground for Winker. Winkers are not affected by this.

Can you perform bench test below and tell me the results. Is this the same test you performed?

BENCH TEST 1
==============================
Using the configuration above, connect Black to ground and Yellow +12v to Run.
Now place an incandescent bulb from ground to the OPEN brake input.
On the two units I have the Running lights turn off and 30ma of current flow through the incandescent bulb. 60ma if paired together. This is NOT normal and it turns off the Stalks Run LEDs.
==============================


Current measurements by Pair:
1) Brake and Ground draw 127.8ma. Brake lights are on.
2) Run and Ground draw 16.3ma. Run lights are on.
3) License Plate LED draws 7.6ma.
4) Run and Plate Light draw 23.85ma.

BENCH TEST 2
==============================
Connect Lic Plate LED to Run LEDs Yellow wire. Do NOT apply power!
Connect ground wires for stalks and Lic Plate LED.
Connect Brake LEDs RED wire to +12V;
I observed that the Lic Plate LED powers on through current which is leaking through the Signal Stalks RUN leads.

Current Measured was 135.4ma
Why does it feed back and turn on my License Plate light? This is not Normal.
==============================

Thank you,
Randy



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Defect or design; Integrated-LED-Turn-Signals-built-in-brake-light-048-1-1pair
From: me
Date: Tue, April 24, 2012 11:37 am
To: the2wheels

14x LED Turn Signals x 2

Hello,
I bought these turn stalks and find that when used in conjunction with an incandescent bulb like an #1157 dual filament bulb found in many brake lighting applications as soon as I insert the #1157 bulb, the running lights from the “Turn-Signals-built-in-brake-light-048-1-1pair” turn off.

However if I leave the incandescent bulb out – (mind you this is not an option) the running lights on the turn stalks work fine. The application is a 2008 Yamaha FZ6. The Turn and Brake lights work fine.

Are they made this way or are these defective? They work fine if no Incandescent bulb is used and each were tested independently. They both do the same thing.

Please Advise.

Thank you


Invoice - Personal info - stuff deleted. . . .
1 | 048-1_1pair | Integrated LED Turn Signals built-in brake
 

FinalImpact

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Re: Sold 51 sets. No complaints

Minor update:
Reseller said they've sold a Whopping 51 units (sets) and have no complaints so far.
 

Jman

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Just purchased the puig LED plate light to replace the wimpy evotech one. Hopefully, it will have much better light output.
 

FinalImpact

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Just purchased the puig LED plate light to replace the wimpy evotech one. Hopefully, it will have much better light output.

How'd this plate light work out; any better? Do you still need lit match to see it?


PS - those guys no longer Return my messages. . . Although I would be jumping to conclusions to say "paying more" for product will get you better service if something goes wrong, that is not always the case. However a basic response about HOW you product is supposed to work would be kinda nice! Plus a 30 day warranty isn't much for a signal that's supposed to last for years. . . I'm just saying most of us don't intend to swap signals every month. I give them 3 thumbs down. . .
 

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Man, I just put these in and I'm having the same issues. Thought I was going bonkers when I pulled the tail light bulb out and the markers came on. Did you ever discover if a LED 1157 would work or swaping out the tail light for the LED one. Sure would like to get the marker light working.
 

FinalImpact

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Man, I just put these in and I'm having the same issues. Thought I was going bonkers when I pulled the tail light bulb out and the markers came on. Did you ever discover if a LED 1157 would work or swaping out the tail light for the LED one. Sure would like to get the marker light working.

Never did order it. It seemed RIDICULOUS to have to buy a $20 LED 1157 when $3 one would outlast the bike! Prolly just gonna ditch em and buy some better ones. Good idea SUCK design. I tried not to bad mouth the Co but I have the email if you wish to B$itch about the same fault. It not Random or isolated as best I can tell. PRODUCT FAIL!!!! Feel free to ping these. . .
[email protected] / [email protected] / [email protected]

I suspect an LED 1157 will not solve it but I could be mistaken. I tried to isolate it with diodes and that didn't work and my thinking is both will have a diode type junction so its a waste of money. I may do it anyway though as need a brighter plate light.

Best of luck!
 

Motogiro

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Never did order it. It seemed RIDICULOUS to have to buy a $20 LED 1157 when $3 one would outlast the bike! Prolly just gonna ditch em and buy some better ones. Good idea SUCK design. I tried not to bad mouth the Co but I have the email if you wish to B$itch about the same fault. It not Random or isolated as best I can tell. PRODUCT FAIL!!!! Feel free to ping these. . .
[email protected] / [email protected] / [email protected]

I suspect an LED 1157 will not solve it but I could be mistaken. I tried to isolate it with diodes and that didn't work and my thinking is both will have a diode type junction so its a waste of money. I may do it anyway though as need a brighter plate light.

Best of luck!

Makes me mad when I hear what's going on with these and I wish I could have em here to do some tests and configs to see if I could get em to behave...
 

FinalImpact

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Makes me mad when I hear what's going on with these and I wish I could have em here to do some tests and configs to see if I could get em to behave...

I'm all ear from across the 101010's we rely on so much. Let me know if you have some dedicated tests as there is only so much that can done with a sealed unit!

Recap: winkers are isolated and not an issue.
Brake and run are the same LEDs so its about current flow to get the brightness desired. FWIW: the RUN leads (wires) are way smaller gauge (bigger wires) than the BRAKE wires into the stalks. My point: they get their current from the bikes RUN circuit and the bikes brake circuit is just a trigger with no load. The assembly is sonic welded together so it must be destroyed to open it. I think I've wasted enough time on it so now I'm waiting to find something I like to replace them.
 

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Just keeping it simple but when I bench tested the lights they worked fine so shouldn't it be possible to get them to work on the bike. Would running a ground from the LED's straight to the battery stop the issue? If I have some time tomorrow I going to do some investigating.
 

FinalImpact

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True they do as did mine. . .

BENCH TEST 1 >> Integrated-LED-Turn-Signals-built-in-brake-light-048-1-1pair
==============================
Connect Black to Ground and Yellow +12v (Run).

Place an incandescent bulb between Black Ground and the OPEN brake input RED wire. DO NOT Power the RED wire to +12v.

Does the RUN LED Turn off?
==============================
On the two units I have the Running lights turn off and 30ma of current flow through the incandescent bulb. This is NOT normal and it turns off the Stalks Run LEDs.


^^ if you use an incandescent bulb this is how its gonna go down.
 
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