Newbie Question on Twisties

I only have about 700 miles riding experience and I have a question...

I haven't had any problems with this YET, but I'm curious... It's well established that we are supposed to "look through the turn" and look as far into a corner as we can see.

My question is since we can't always see potholes and gravel (and other such things) from a distance, how do we balance keeping a lookout for these things while still looking as far into a corner as possible? Does one just switch their glances between the close and the far?

Seems like a simple question but I'm not sure if I've ever seen it addressed... Thanks!

Not sure if this is the right advice but the way I see it is your periferial vision will see anything big enough you need to worry about. If its only a small bump your suspension should take care of it. If you do see a big pot hole or some obstical the most important thing to do is NOT to look at it. If you stare at it you will hit it.
Look at where you want the bike to go (turn exit) and you will be ok.

I reckon target fixation is one of the (if not THE) most important things to master on a bike.

Hope this helps (and hope I'm right)

Damo

Part of looking as far as you can through the turn involves looking at the road surface. You should spot trouble way in advance and adjust line and speed accordingly. If any road imperfections catch you off-guard, chances are you're doing one (or combination) of the following:
1. Not checking road surface far enough ahead of you.
2. Riding too fast for your comfort level.
3. Following someone too closely.

all of the above...and i'll add a few things...

these bikes are amazingly forgiving, unless you're really hangin it out there
small road imperfections can be tolerated easily, stay off the brakes and
if you have lane space get as upright as possible when traversing the object

if riding in a group, new riders should be an odd number only, ie: 1st, 3rd etc,
this keeps you in the left tire track where there is less debris

on tight left sweepers, move to the center a bit so yer mellon don't hang
out into on-coming traffic when you get down low

as for vision, yep, pick your line, set up for it and start to scan the road as
you get around it...drastic maneuvers to avoid stuff is usually a bigger
hazard at this point than the road surface, smooth riding is safe riding

Pretty much everything has been covered. I'll add that when riding an unfamiliar road, just take it easy, so nothing really catches you by surprise. I ride the same mountain roads everyday, so I know where the "trouble spots" are. I still get surprised once in a while. This morning right after a decreasing radius switchback, there was a frickin' small tree down! The hillside caught part of it, so I was able to sneak under it without issue. Just goes to show you, you never know what's around the next bend! Anyways, once you've learned a certain road, then you can gradually go faster and faster, if you want.

novaks47 said:

Pretty much everything has been covered. I'll add that when riding an unfamiliar road, just take it easy, so nothing really catches you by surprise. I ride the same mountain roads everyday, so I know where the "trouble spots" are. I still get surprised once in a while. This morning right after a decreasing radius switchback, there was a frickin' small tree down! The hillside caught part of it, so I was able to sneak under it without issue. Just goes to show you, you never know what's around the next bend! Anyways, once you've learned a certain road, then you can gradually go faster and faster, if you want.

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Yea good point.


EXPECT THE UN-EXPECTED

I scan (to varying degrees based on speed/committment to a turn) but one key thing to keep in mind that is if you see some debri right in front of your tire it's too late to avoid it but it will still cause you to freak out. Look where you want to go and make sure you're looking far enough away that things you're seeing can still be avoided. I always try to find the sweet spot where it's far enough away where I can change my path/avoid but not so far that I will miss important details...and then I scan within a range depending on the situation.

dstaffx said:

Not sure if this is the right advice but the way I see it is your periferial vision will see anything big enough you need to worry about. If its only a small bump your suspension should take care of it. If you do see a big pot hole or some obstical the most important thing to do is NOT to look at it. If you stare at it you will hit it.
Look at where you want the bike to go (turn exit) and you will be ok.

I reckon target fixation is one of the (if not THE) most important things to master on a bike.

Hope this helps (and hope I'm right)

Damo

Click to expand...

I'd say that this is pretty good advice and right on the money. While you are looking where you want to go you should also keep your peripheral vision open wide so that you can see things that you may need to avoid. Damo makes a great point when he says that most small things, bumps, tar strips, little patches of sand are minor enough that you can roll right over and not have anything bad happen. It is when you stare at these minor things and freak out (get tense on the bike, target fixate, roll off the gas) that the situation gets bad.

One other thing to keep in mind is that when you try to look ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE CORNER you may end up losing track of where you are in the moment because your peripheral vision can't really keep up. There is a fine line between looking where you want to go and trying to look TOO FAR through the turn. Does that make sense? Anyone have any experience with what happens when you try to look too far through a corner?

Misti

Misti said:

I'd say that this is pretty good advice and right on the money. While you are looking where you want to go you should also keep your peripheral vision open wide so that you can see things that you may need to avoid. Damo makes a great point when he says that most small things, bumps, tar strips, little patches of sand are minor enough that you can roll right over and not have anything bad happen. It is when you stare at these minor things and freak out (get tense on the bike, target fixate, roll off the gas) that the situation gets bad.

One other thing to keep in mind is that when you try to look ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE CORNER you may end up losing track of where you are in the moment because your peripheral vision can't really keep up. There is a fine line between looking where you want to go and trying to look TOO FAR through the turn. Does that make sense? Anyone have any experience with what happens when you try to look too far through a corner?

Misti

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Yep, right here! lol I'm still pretty green when it comes to cornering, but I'm getting a little better each day. My first problem was not looking through the corners, while at the same time turning in too soon. I would miss the apex, then end up way too wide upon exit. I'm improving that, but I still need some practice. A few times, I looked too far ahead, and again turned in too soon, or I ended up turning in at the correct point, only turning in too sharply, if that makes sense. I'll get it down eventually. Of course, now that I'm finally getting halfway decent, it decides to rain.

Misti said:

One other thing to keep in mind is that when you try to look ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE CORNER you may end up losing track of where you are in the moment because your peripheral vision can't really keep up.

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While this may happen, I think 99% of the problems people have, especially on the street are caused by looking too close, not too far out.

The numbers of riders you see on the street who are riding "hex head nuts" instead of a smooth line is overwhelming. And that is almost always caused by looking too close and readjusting the line each time their eyes move up the road.

Really, other than the entrance to 8 at Big Willow, I can't think of too many places it's even possible to look "too far" down the track or road.

bjorn240 said:

While this may happen, I think 99% of the problems people have, especially on the street are caused by looking too close, not too far out.

The numbers of riders you see on the street who are riding "hex head nuts" instead of a smooth line is overwhelming. And that is almost always caused by looking too close and readjusting the line each time their eyes move up the road.

Really, other than the entrance to 8 at Big Willow, I can't think of too many places it's even possible to look "too far" down the track or road.

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I agree that most of the problems on the street are caused by riders looking too close and that it is a much much bigger problem then looking too far ahead. I just hear people telling riders to look all the way through the turn and sometimes that can be overwhelming. When a rider tries to look all the way through the turn they can lose track of where they are mid corner and end up running over the curb or on the inside shoulder. I prefer to try to look in stages, kind of like connect the dots. Look to the points you want to go and then look up and to the next point.

For example, say you are coming up to a turn, you would want to look into the turn but would you want to try to look all the way to the exit or to some other point in the turn? What if you couldn't see all the way through the turn?

Misti