New Riders: Track day or school first?

Do you guys think that new riders should hit a regular track day first (in order to check out the track and get an idea of track riding) before taking a riding school or should they do it the other way around? Why?

Misti

I am a firm believer in schools first. Better to get a good foundation before you start playing around. But that's just my opinion

is this a trackday instead of lessons, or going to a trackday school for instruction?

i'm doing the later in May, it's a whole day of track riding with feedback and instruction. Supposed to be good for beginners and experienced people alike.

I passed my test last year, but I still have a lot to learn

My personal opinion is tiding school first and after some experience riding then do the trackdays.

First you need to get used to the bike and learn little by little. Slow speed maneuvering helps a lot to control a bike and if you fall down most likely it won't be serious, simply pick up the bike and try again.
For beginners there is a lot to learn and it could get overwhelming.

For a trackday, if you have your own bike, then you need to prep. it. If you fall going faster you risk to loss the bike and also get seriously hurt.

Before getting into some speed on a track, you need to do many things on a bike automatically and you can start getting this with a riding school.


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School first, riding experience then track day. Some may be quick learners but a track day exposes the inexperienced to high speeds and the potential to make a very bad mistake. I do a lot of race photography and have seen many riders go down. In the novice groups the simple mistakes can be very costly, yes track days are not races and the risks are much lower but should someone who has been riding for a few hours be turned loose at Road Atlanta on that looooooong straight?

That said with some experience and the basics of riding learned, a track day or race school can be valuable and fun.

I think a motorcycle safety course first because your probably going to be dealing with automobile drivers and the more education you have about yourself, your machine and others, the better. Then I think track should be mandatory because it adds skill and psychological readiness to make you an even better rider.
Haven't met a person yet that told me I did a track day and their riding and attitude toward riding didn't command more respect from me. I've always seen people improve from it. :rockon:

I think the right path is:

1. MSF
2. Get comfortable with the bike (taking off, shifting, slowing down) and read some basics (watch the twist of the wrist DVD at the very least)
3. Do a track day or two
4. Take a track/racing school
5. Do a ton more track days and/or begin racing

What I did wrong was to go to a racing school without even being on a track before. That was followed by a bunch of track days and then I started doing the racing practices on regular basis. Later that year I did my first race and got my racing license and it's been love ever since

I don't advise doing the racing school as a first track experience tho. The only reason I ended up doing that was because of my schedule and because of what a bunch of friends advised me (BAD advice). I was trying way too hard to keep up with everybody and although I wasn't the slowest guy in the group I was WAY over my head that day.

After the next track day weekend I did in NJ (Thunderbolt) everything fell in place but looking back it just wasn't worth the stress and pressure of riding with a lot more experienced riders during my first time out on the track.

To make the experience even more exciting and unforgettable, that was also the first time I've ever ridden my new-to-me (at that time) race-ready track bike equipped with practically an on/off switch for a clutch and a quick-turn throttle, rolling on cold slicks on a chilly NH April Friday without tire warmers ... I was sliding my rear wheel and pushing the front on more than one occasion and that's because I had no clue wtf was going on and my tires were cold as ice. Don't even get me started about how I felt riding that same bike in similar conditions but in the wet a week later in NJ. There's nothing quite as scary as having 0 skill and riding on cold slicks in the wet on a track covered in pollen. How I didn't crash I will never know ...

But I digress :BLAA:

School first. 100%!



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Is the school run at the track? The same track they will be doing track days on?
If that were the case I would say do a TD 1st & then the school. Just to get an idea of the circuit & do a bit of learning on your own. Even if you are learning bad habits. It's a base to work off.
Then roll up to a school (at same track), listen, learn & practice. All of a sudden what seemed impossible at the TD is proven to be much simpler if you slow down a little & think about things before you head out.

This will then highlight the importance of the skills learned at the school & probably have more relevance from the start of the day as the pupil already has a base to improve on.

I think riding the track on an open track day once or twice to get familiarized with it, and then going to a riding school would work better. Having ridden the track a few times already, when the school session begin you will be able to see what you were doing 'wrong' or 'right' and take home some improvements from the instruction.

My $0.02, YMMV.

Interesting answers guys, thanks. It seems that most people advocate a riding school first before the track day but when it comes to a school that is run ON A TRACK the opinion is a bit different. The reason I ask this is because I hear a lot of people say that they want to come to the California Superbike School (where I am a coach and have been for the past 7 years) but they think they should do a track day first. I always wondered why people feel like they should go to a track day first before coming to our school.

My own view point on it is that it is better to go to a school first (even one that is run at the track) so that you can learn track etiquette, get comfortable with a circuit, AND learn proper riding technique/skills all while under the supervision of a qualified riding coach. This would help prevent learning bad habits (which become hard to break) and ensure that your "first time" is well supervised so you don't get into any trouble

I speak not only from a coaches perspective but from personal experience as well. I never took a MSF riding school, I was self taught and the first time I went to the track it was for a regular track day followed by a "racing school" strictly called because you get your race license there but not much instruction. My first experience on the track was pretty intimidating and pretty scary as there wasn't much of a focus on safety and there were way too many novice riders (like myself) there fumbling around and just trying to go fast. By the time I took CSS as a student I had so many bad riding habits (being crossed up with my BP was just one of them) that it took a LONG time for me to break them. I wish I had done the school first and then hit the track, I may have avoided some of the first few crashes as well.

I know some people are worried about having to try to "learn" too much at once by taking a school at the same time as hitting the track for the first time but if it is a good riding school that puts a lot of attention on safety and on technique taught one step at a time and supervised by good coaches then it should make life easier......

Anyone have any similar experiences to mine or really different ones??

Misti

I was just getting ready to say get into CSS, and here you are a coach! LOL! Or some other school like Lee Parks Total Control. MSF is good for first time riders. BUT IMHO teaches you just enough to get you into trouble in street riding and nothing about track riding. The advanced MSF classes are better at teaching you better street riding techniques. But again, nothing useful for the track. I think Lee Parks classes are a good bridge between CSS and MSF advanced classes. BUT if you wanna hit the track CSS is the only way to go!

Bill said:

I was just getting ready to say get into CSS, and here you are a coach! LOL! Or some other school like Lee Parks Total Control. MSF is good for first time riders. BUT IMHO teaches you just enough to get you into trouble in street riding and nothing about track riding. The advanced MSF classes are better at teaching you better street riding techniques. But again, nothing useful for the track. I think Lee Parks classes are a good bridge between CSS and MSF advanced classes. BUT if you wanna hit the track CSS is the only way to go!

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coincidence hahahaaha.

Question for you, have you taken any of the CSS classes? I think there is a bit of a misconception out there that the skills taught in CSS are only applicable for track riding (or mostly applicable to track riding/racing). However, the majority of students we coach at the school are regular street riders that hardly hit the track at all and Keith always gives examples of how the techniques being taught (throttle control, turn points, reference points etc) are useful and necessary for street riding. Your thoughts????

Thanks!
Misti

I found the question odd in that the track days that I do have "school" included in them; I assume we are defining "school" as classroom time between sessions and feedback from coachs?

We have some excellent riders on this forum. I have tried the Big Willows Spring Track (beginners group) without first taking a lesson. What a thrilling experience!
I definitely would recommend some track class time before hand. Just to help calm the nerves and learn the proper approaches/techniques through the course.

I've seen some ducatis and other exotics wipe out on some of the turns - OUCH. I was propably one of the slowest riders on the track - but did not wipe out ;-)

Honestly, MSF is very help for people who know nothing about riding a motorcycle but they do not teach you how to be a good rider.

I took two course by Lee Parks on back to back days. I went from being a completely upright rider because i was scared of leaning the bike over to dragging a knee midway on the second day. I learned that pretty much everything I did on a motorcycle up until that point was wrong. Lee parks told me he was shock at how much I improved and said that it was one of the most abrupt improvements he has ever seen. I think the key to my rapid improvement was putting my faith/trust in the instructors and focus on what they are telling you and believe it enough to overcome my previous self imposed limitations. Also seeing how easily they did all the techniques right before my eyes help me too.

The position of both my legs, where i sat on the bike, the direction of my torso, my hip position, how I held my hands, my back, and where I look all got changed. My shifting in both directions was changed. Braking changed.

Everyone who took the class that day showed improvements and was pleased with their results especially me.

I practice the techniques I was shown and continue to improve.

I am still pretty new to riding a motorcycle about 8 months of riding. My next step is when I feel like I ready to get a more of a race bike to go to CSS. So i can do some more training and try out a supersport bike without buying and possible finding out that type of riding isn't for me.

Neal said:

Honestly, MSF is very help for people who know nothing about riding a motorcycle but they do not teach you how to be a good rider.

I took two course by Lee Parks on back to back days. I went from being a completely upright rider because i was scared of leaning the bike over to dragging a knee midway on the second day. I learned that pretty much everything I did on a motorcycle up until that point was wrong. Lee parks told me he was shock at how much I improved and said that it was one of the most abrupt improvements he has ever seen. I think the key to my rapid improvement was putting my faith/trust in the instructors and focus on what they are telling you and believe it enough to overcome my previous self imposed limitations. Also seeing how easily they did all the techniques right before my eyes help me too.

The position of both my legs, where i sat on the bike, the direction of my torso, my hip position, how I held my hands, my back, and where I look all got changed. My shifting in both directions was changed. Braking changed.

Everyone who took the class that day showed improvements and was pleased with their results especially me.

I practice the techniques I was shown and continue to improve.

I am still pretty new to riding a motorcycle about 8 months of riding. My next step is when I feel like I ready to get a more of a race bike to go to CSS. So i can do some more training and try out a supersport bike without buying and possible finding out that type of riding isn't for me.

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Hey Neal, I believe we took the same level 2 class. We shared the same table during lunch at BK. If you're the one with the red FZ, I do recall your impressive improvement throughout the day, especially when I saw how relatively smooth and in control you were while lightly scrapping that strap on puck. I too I'm looking at California Superbike School for my next riding instruction and lessons. I'm saving up for their two day camp

pkoosa said:

Hey Neal, I believe we took the same level 2 class. We shared the same table during lunch at BK. If you're the one with the red FZ, I do recall your impressive improvement throughout the day, especially when I saw how relatively smooth and in control you were while lightly scrapping that strap on puck. I too I'm looking at California Superbike School for my next riding instruction and lessons. I'm saving up for their two day camp

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Yeah. That was me. My riding is less sick now though i am still bed ridden when it comes to trail braking.

Thanks for mentioning this website. Reading about common challenges fz6 riders have on this bike has helped me find direction on solving issues i have with my bike. Right now I am in the process of doing the fz1 bar mod and I am having my suspension rebuilt.

Not trying to hijack the thread, but what is a good resource to find track days with training available in my area (replace my with any user)?

larcklorn said:

Not trying to hijack the thread, but what is a good resource to find track days with training available in my area (replace my with any user)?

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I hope you can find this link useful
http://www.trackdaymag.com/Default.aspx


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