Clutchless Shifiting

nimzotech

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A while back I was up shifting in to high gears while traveling pretty fast, all without the clutch. I remember slightly rolling of the throttle before shifting up. Recently I have not been able to replicate this clutch-less shifting. Can anyone help out here? I know there were threads about this, I just could not find them now.

Hmm... I wonder if should not roll off the throttle completely.
 

Doorag

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Someone much more knowledgeable than me will probably answer too but it's my understanding that you just need to roll-off a tiny bit. I have also found shifting is almost guaranteed to be perfect over 8K revs.
 

nimzotech

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Thank you. That's actually what I thought, I was rolling off the throttle too much. Cheers.:Sport:
 

trailblazer87

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Exactly,
you just want to ease off the throttle enough to take the pressure off the transmission and chain. If you start to decelerate then you are letting go of the throttle too much.
 

Hellgate

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To make it super smooth, preload your shift lever with just a bit of pressure, when you are ready to shift, just "flick" the throttle closed, just a bit, then up shift and then get back on the throttle, it all happens pretty quick. The preloading works amazingly well.

This work well at most RPM ranges and especially well as a speed shift, if you will. The bike will just rocket at when you do this WFO. It also works great when I'm commuting too.

Of yeah, this if for an upshift only, use your clutch on the downshift.
 

Canada17

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The first time I did it, it was by accident, but subsequently over 7k rpm I have been able to do it, especially shifting up.
 

nimzotech

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this doesnt mess with the tranny/clutch?

Not at all. There is an excellent book out there Total Control by Lee Parks. In the book Lee explains that at higher speeds it is actually recommended to do clutchless upshifting as it is easier on the tranny. Check out that book, what we're talking about here is in the "throttle control" chapter and "Shifting".

Thank you wrightme43, vegasrider and all others for recommending that book and others.:thumbup:

My technique and riding skills have improved after reading Total Control.
 

Doorag

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The first time I did it, it was by accident, but subsequently over 7k rpm I have been able to do it, especially shifting up.

My experience exactly - and I'm getting better and better at it as time goes on. I can't seem to do it nearly as well or as often with a pillion though...
 
H

HavBlue

this doesnt mess with the tranny/clutch?

You have to remember what you are dealing with here. In a cage with a manual transmission you are dealing with a gearbox where the driver can select any forward gear at any time by simply moving the shift lever from one point to the other in the common H pattern. On a motorcycle this is different in that the rider does not have direct access to any one specific gear so they are often termed "sequential manual transmissions." The clutch is used to disengage torque transfer allowing the common synchromesh transmission to be shifted smoothly but again, a motorcycle is a bit different. Granted, you must still disengage the torque transfer but only for a very brief moment and this is accomplished not by disengaging the clutch but rather, by slightly backing off the throttle allowing the shift fork to select the next higher ratio in the gear stack. Done properly this will not hurt a thing and it will be easier the faster you are going. As this technique is learned you will find your shifts are both very quick and extremely smooth as Pete has mentioned in his post.

Downshifting is a completely different can of worms and while it is possible to downshift in a clutchless manner, it is not recommended as it requires a very high level of rev-matching and load release which is why most folks find it very difficult. Use the clutch and avoid the error factor.
 

grommit

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From a dynamics point of view you are upsetting the bike less with weight transfer than by doing the on, off(clutch) and on power sequence.

Smooth is fast.:thumbup:
 

doc_simple

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i was wondering about the down too, seems like it might be harder on the tranny

I tried the upshifting today and it worked but it wa weird the way the bike jumped on each shift, even with letting off the gas a little

a little OT but someone was talking about another technique of letting off with the hand opposite the turn and i tried that too, pretty amazing
 

DefyInertia

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i was wondering about the down too, seems like it might be harder on the tranny

I tried the upshifting today and it worked but it wa weird the way the bike jumped on each shift, even with letting off the gas a little

See HavBlue's post on page one for some info on downshifting.

Your bike "jumped"? When properly done, your shifting will be seemless.
 

doc_simple

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See HavBlue's post on page one for some info on downshifting.

Your bike "jumped"? When properly done, your shifting will be seemless.


not like it lifted off the ground but much like when you have to pop it in first from a stop. Not crazy but freaked me a little as its pouring rain here and I was at about 10k rpms when i did the shift.

I have only been back on the forums for a couple days and already got 2 nice tips that are positively affecting my riding, nice ROI :rockon:

I will check out the post and I just ordered Total Control, seeing as I am less than a year on a bike I hope I can fix my bad habits ASAP
 

driver145

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I can clutchless upshift seamlessly from 2nd and beyond. But 1st to 2nd feels like crap... not so much jerky but it just sounds horrible like all kinds clunky metal gear banging. It wouldn't bother me so much, but with the clutch its sooo much smoother. Any advice? Like a different method from 1st to 2nd... or is it one of those things I just have to learn from muscle memory once I finally get it right.
 

Boneman

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Lol...dude that's because, you are not supposed to "clutchless shift" between 1st and 2nd! (up or down) That's why it sounds horrible. Don't do it.

Also, every article I've read about clutchless upshifting all say to only do it for '2nd gear and up'.
 
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H

HavBlue

Lol...dude that's because, you are not supposed to "clutchless shift" between 1st and 2nd! (up or down) That's why it sounds horrible. Don't do it.

Also, every article I've read about clutchless upshifting all say to only do it for '2nd gear and up'.


Lets take this a bit further Bone. The reason it is not recommended between first and second is actually pretty simple. In the sequential transmission on our bikes you must pass neutral to get from 1st to 3rd. Remember, you have no direct access between the two. So, you blast along and disengage the load by feathering off the throttle but wait, the distance from 1st to 3rd is huge here because you must first pass neutral and that is a problem that generally creates some rather interesting results as expressed by "Driver 145."

In the case of that first shift a very light combination of clutch release and throttle disengagement will be enough to allow for that smooth shift. Once you are in second cut that thing loose.
 
H

HavBlue

See HavBlue's post on page one for some info on downshifting.

Your bike "jumped"? When properly done, your shifting will be seemless.

Seemless and dead smooth DI.

Lets take these folks to the gear stack of the FZ6 sequential transmission. Folks, if you have the owner's manual please take it out and open it up to the IPB breakdown of the transmission. Listed under the picture you will find a list of parts. Within those parts will be numbers associated with the respective wheel gears. Please take note of the relative size difference between 1st and 6th. You will note the gears get smaller as we move along the stack from 1st all the way to 6th. Now, this should tell you something. The reason it becomes so easy to move along that stack is because we are moving from the larger gear and down to the smaller.

Now, reverse this thought and think about climbing that stack going from 6th back down to 2nd. When you downshift that smaller gear must be released as the shift fork brings things back to the larger wheel gear and here lie the problem. If you can not release the load and match the speed between the two ratios things are going to once again get real interesting and you may encounter some real funny noises along the way. In an effort to downshift smoothly simply match-rev by applying a small amount of pressure to the clutch lever which will be all the load release you will need to get the job done. I will however say it would be nicer if the FZ6 had a slipper clutch but we can't expect the factory folks to give us everything.

Upshift from 2nd through 6th in a clutchless manner and play with your downshifting technique. It may not be clutchless but you'll get pretty close over time.
 
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