Street drill/practice technique I do

Disclaimer: Don't be stupid. Respect traffic. Respect the dangers.

Also, this is my third riding season. I am not an elite veteran. Take everything I say with a grain of salt.

I've found one great thing to work on that's not ludicrously dangerous on city streets....rate of dive speed. Well, it's dive speed and other things, but mainly dive speed.

A proper cornering technique is to quickly get to the right lean angle and coordinate that dive into the corner with throttle and brakes. On the streets late-entry to corners is a good idea for safety reasons. Combining these two, you have a GREAT little drill you can run on every corner, right handers from their own turning lane or halfway in the lane beside it if there is no traffic. For those 70-90kph short sweepers that have their own curb around them, or left through intersections (assuming traffic is not an issue and there are no sewers, etc.), this is pretty fun, helpful, and not terribly squiddish. Speed on the left handers is obviously slower, but the same thing applies.

What I do is line up the corner, assume the position, trail brake gently then transition onto the throttle when the corner is all but upon me. At this moment, I know the lean angle I need so quickly dive into it and make sure no readjustments will be needed.

I like this because:

1) it isn't really that dangerous since your speeds are pretty close to the legal limits, and you can just hold the speed when you come out of the corner so youre never really moving like a bat out of hell through traffic.

2) it is REALLY effective at dismantling that panic-trigger of over-shooting a corner. The more I practice the more my senses and muscle memory clue into the fact that when on the brakes trailbraking into a corner, it will always come to a point when you need to take the load OFF your front tire and get back on that throttle and dive into the corner at the same time in one quick, smooth motion of body and wrist.

3) Keeping within 20kph of speed limits, for me, works out to riding at 70% of my skill level, so I learn something about my form every time I do this. White-knuckled peg dragging is a thing left in my first and second season of riding. Besides, even at 70% now I'm pretty sure I'm way faster than my white knuckled peg dragging from my first 2 years, lol.

4) It is a stable way to learn to handle a rear tire stepping out of line as you hold steady on the throttle or keep the roll-on if it's not so bad a step-out. Unless you are being stupid and diving into a corner in poor traction conditions or with poor traction obstacles like sewers in the rain, or even dry for that matter, your rear shouldn't step out that much for a itty-bitty patch of gravel. This also assumes you are not being a nut-ball with your speed.

The confidence and overall feeling you have when hitting that perfect lean angle quickly and holding it without adjustments, while rolling on that throttle making your exhaust sing and straightening out......is amazing.

Disclaimer: I'm a level 3 coach with the California Superbike School and have been with them for the last 7 years. I've also raced at the pro level, 2 years racing 600 Supersport with AMA, and I have published articles in a few of the industry magazines including RRW. I just wanted members to know my experience before I posted my response Thanks.


There are a few things in your post that I have some questions about.

First of all you say that, "when on the brakes trailbraking into a corner, it will always come to a point when you need to take the load OFF your front tire and get back on that throttle and dive into the corner at the same time in one quick, smooth motion of body and wrist."

While I agree that if you are trailbraking into a turn there will be a point that you need to take the load off the front I disagree about when and how you suggest to do it. It sounds as if you are coming off the brakes, giving a bit of throttle and THEN turning the bike with a little bit of throttle already applied.

What happens if you try to turn a bike when you already have a little bit of throttle applied? Ideally, when should you be getting on the gas in a turn and what should you be doing with it once it has been cracked on?

Misti

Thanks for sharing Lone.

@misti - is there anything you recommend that we can practice in normal everyday riding to improve our skills?

Misti said:

Disclaimer: I'm a level 3 coach with the California Superbike School and have been with them for the last 7 years. I've also raced at the pro level, 2 years racing 600 Supersport with AMA, and I have published articles in a few of the industry magazines including RRW. I just wanted members to know my experience before I posted my response Thanks.


There are a few things in your post that I have some questions about.

First of all you say that, "when on the brakes trailbraking into a corner, it will always come to a point when you need to take the load OFF your front tire and get back on that throttle and dive into the corner at the same time in one quick, smooth motion of body and wrist."

While I agree that if you are trailbraking into a turn there will be a point that you need to take the load off the front I disagree about when and how you suggest to do it. It sounds as if you are coming off the brakes, giving a bit of throttle and THEN turning the bike with a little bit of throttle already applied.

What happens if you try to turn a bike when you already have a little bit of throttle applied? Ideally, when should you be getting on the gas in a turn and what should you be doing with it once it has been cracked on?

Misti

Click to expand...

Incoming thread hi-jack....

Holy carp, I just googled you after reading your disclaimer. Impressive resume and hobbies!

/back to your regularly scheduled program.

Misti said:

Disclaimer: I'm a level 3 coach with the California Superbike School and have been with them for the last 7 years. I've also raced at the pro level, 2 years racing 600 Supersport with AMA, and I have published articles in a few of the industry magazines including RRW. I just wanted members to know my experience before I posted my response Thanks.


There are a few things in your post that I have some questions about.

First of all you say that, "when on the brakes trailbraking into a corner, it will always come to a point when you need to take the load OFF your front tire and get back on that throttle and dive into the corner at the same time in one quick, smooth motion of body and wrist."

While I agree that if you are trailbraking into a turn there will be a point that you need to take the load off the front I disagree about when and how you suggest to do it. It sounds as if you are coming off the brakes, giving a bit of throttle and THEN turning the bike with a little bit of throttle already applied.

What happens if you try to turn a bike when you already have a little bit of throttle applied? Ideally, when should you be getting on the gas in a turn and what should you be doing with it once it has been cracked on?

Misti

Click to expand...

Can't speak for anyone else, and I dunno if it's the prefered technique, but when I'm "on it" and trail braking, I start to ease off the brakes as I enter a lean (part of the idea of trail braking being that it is quicker to turn in with the front end compressed), and aim to have let them off completely just before full lean, which for me is just before the apex. This way I am already on the gas just as I hit the apex (a little earlier and dragging the rear brake if I'm having a bad day with the fuel cut off...lol) and powering through and out, just keeping the rear squirming, and then the front hopping. I figure that this keeps you near to the edge of traction the whole way through the turn, and you are either accelarating or decelarating throughout. Of course you don't have to go as nuts as that, but once I start playing the trailbreaking game I start going faster...lol. It's not my fault...it's a sickness:BLAA:.


lonesoldier84
"What I do is line up the corner, assume the position, trail brake gently then transition onto the throttle when the corner is all but upon me. At this moment, I know the lean angle I need so quickly dive into it and make sure no readjustments will be needed."

Another thing you can try is the no braking at all game:rockon:.

If you're just out for a bit of a stroll in the twistys and not trying to reach warp speed you can pick your spot for engine braking, corner smoothly and quickly (even whiteknuckle scraping pegs if you like), and get on the gas, all without the use of your brakes. More often than not I barely touch them on a stroll now. This keeps you just flip-flopping from side to side through turns, and can still be quite challenging in that you have to pick your spot to roll off. The other bonus is that your brake pads will last forever...lol.

Doorag said:

Thanks for sharing Lone.

@misti - is there anything you recommend that we can practice in normal everyday riding to improve our skills?

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Sure, there are a lot of things you can practice in normal everyday riding that will improve your skills. It is hard to recommend anything without really knowing what kinds of things you would like, or need to work on. What I will do is start a thread on this topic where you can post some of the things you think you need work on and I can give ideas or suggestions on how to go about practicing it. That way everyone else can chime in too and I'm not jacking this thread

Misti

responses in my dead thread!!



regarding throttle input:

I get back on the throttle as soon as the bike is tilted in. I should have worded that better initially. for me it goes:

-adjust body position while feathering brake
-brake
-fade off brake while bike angle nudges a smidgeon into a lean
-off brake and dive!
-pretty much the tiniest sliver of a moment after i am in the lean i work the throttle back in and get heavier on it as i come out.

all of this applies to the typical 90 degree turn around town where you have your own turning lane with cement curb. that sort of thing. also, left handers when there is no traffic.

regarding no-braking game:

I try that sometimes but I find at least brushing my brakes gives me a better "feel" for the corner. My muscle memory kicks in more effectively i guess. but i will try that. if you don't hear from me for a couple days, you will know this no-braking game didn't end well

lol, jk, I ride safe even when the pace is "spirited"

and @ misti, thanks a ton. love your input on this forum. it's a credit to us all to be able to claim your membership here.

lonesoldier84 said:

responses in my dead thread!!



regarding throttle input:

I get back on the throttle as soon as the bike is tilted in. I should have worded that better initially. for me it goes:

-adjust body position while feathering brake
-brake
-fade off brake while bike angle nudges a smidgeon into a lean
-off brake and dive!
-pretty much the tiniest sliver of a moment after i am in the lean i work the throttle back in and get heavier on it as i come out.

all of this applies to the typical 90 degree turn around town where you have your own turning lane with cement curb. that sort of thing. also, left handers when there is no traffic.

regarding no-braking game:

I try that sometimes but I find at least brushing my brakes gives me a better "feel" for the corner. My muscle memory kicks in more effectively i guess. but i will try that. if you don't hear from me for a couple days, you will know this no-braking game didn't end well

lol, jk, I ride safe even when the pace is "spirited"

and @ misti, thanks a ton. love your input on this forum. it's a credit to us all to be able to claim your membership here.

Click to expand...

Ok, that makes more sense, thanks for clarifying and thanks for the nice comment at the end

Just to pounce on you a little bit more, you mention that you adjust your body position while feathering the brake. Do you ever notice feel that you are a bit "busy" at the turn entry? What might happen if you are adjusting your BP while braking? Do you think there might be a better time to adjust your BP and how might it effect your riding?

Misti

I'm going to wing Misti's question as I'm new to sport bike riding:

Seems you should start braking, while selecting your best line into the corner, then adjust BP as you start our lean that way your not too busy doing all three at the same time?

I adjust BP while on the early portion of the brake squeeze. When the majority of the braking is done, I am in proper BP before then.

Thing is, I never brake really hard. I like to use my brakes to help me guage the tip-in point by gradually decreasing speed via trail-braking right up to the point where the bike is no longer vertical.

When the bike is trail-braked a little bit into the lean and has started the lean, I get off the brakes and tip-in fully and quickly.

Very shortly thereafter when the moment comes to roll on the throttle (a smidgeon before I hit the apex) I roll on the throttle and gradually shift my BP back to mid-seat.

I have a big problem with heavy braking. The problem comes with guaging speed. Since I only did one track-school lesson and haven't been able to afford another track day (should get out there again in 2 weeks or so when my pants are in), I haven't been able to practice heavy braking pre-corner. Too dangerous on roads if you get the speed wrong you're off the road.

Why do I have a problem with heavy braking before corner? I don't know. It was the same thing during the track-school lesson. The light and fading trail-braking is easily transitioned into a smooth throttle roll on. Heavy braking then trying to transition to trail-braking then trying to transition into throttle roll-on with me usually results in choppier inputs than is ideal.

Don't get me wrong, sometimes I get it just right, but usually after heavy braking you end up in first gear and on the FZ6 rolling back on the throttle you get that big "JUMP" of throttle input and it is really not very smooth. I have tried babying the clutch to try to smooth it out but it's still not happening reliably.

So what ends up happening is in expecting the choppy inputs, I back off considerably and that actually ends up being worse in some situations because rather than give it too much throttle in first gear I will give it too little as I try to ease into the throttle roll-on.........and this results in engine braking which is NOT what I want to do when I am hitting the apex of a corner as it upsets the weight of the bike from being shifted to the rear wheel as it should be when flowing through a corner.

A lot of words, but hope that is clear? Would be nice to get some insight into this so I have something to work on for the several track days I'll be doing this month.

And I really want to do a cali superbike school lesson one of these days. Next season or in August. Are there Cali Superbike schools in BC anywhere? I really want to take that slide bike out for a spin.

lonesoldier84 said:

I adjust BP while on the early portion of the brake squeeze. When the majority of the braking is done, I am in proper BP before then.

Thing is, I never brake really hard. I like to use my brakes to help me guage the tip-in point by gradually decreasing speed via trail-braking right up to the point where the bike is no longer vertical.

When the bike is trail-braked a little bit into the lean and has started the lean, I get off the brakes and tip-in fully and quickly.

Very shortly thereafter when the moment comes to roll on the throttle (a smidgeon before I hit the apex) I roll on the throttle and gradually shift my BP back to mid-seat.

I have a big problem with heavy braking. The problem comes with guaging speed. Since I only did one track-school lesson and haven't been able to afford another track day (should get out there again in 2 weeks or so when my pants are in), I haven't been able to practice heavy braking pre-corner. Too dangerous on roads if you get the speed wrong you're off the road.

Why do I have a problem with heavy braking before corner? I don't know. It was the same thing during the track-school lesson. The light and fading trail-braking is easily transitioned into a smooth throttle roll on. Heavy braking then trying to transition to trail-braking then trying to transition into throttle roll-on with me usually results in choppier inputs than is ideal.

Don't get me wrong, sometimes I get it just right, but usually after heavy braking you end up in first gear and on the FZ6 rolling back on the throttle you get that big "JUMP" of throttle input and it is really not very smooth. I have tried babying the clutch to try to smooth it out but it's still not happening reliably.

So what ends up happening is in expecting the choppy inputs, I back off considerably and that actually ends up being worse in some situations because rather than give it too much throttle in first gear I will give it too little as I try to ease into the throttle roll-on.........and this results in engine braking which is NOT what I want to do when I am hitting the apex of a corner as it upsets the weight of the bike from being shifted to the rear wheel as it should be when flowing through a corner.

A lot of words, but hope that is clear? Would be nice to get some insight into this so I have something to work on for the several track days I'll be doing this month.

And I really want to do a cali superbike school lesson one of these days. Next season or in August. Are there Cali Superbike schools in BC anywhere? I really want to take that slide bike out for a spin.

Click to expand...

My first thought is that you have WAY to many things going on at once here. You are trying to do too much at one time and it is getting confusing. My suggestion is to pick one thing at a time to work on, get that sorted and then work on something else.

I would forget about working on heavy braking for the time being. There is no need to brake as hard as possible when riding on the street or even doing a track day. Smooth gradual braking and corner entry is fine. Learn the skills before trying to add something like heavy braking as you will most likely end up charging the corners and going slower.

We were talking about when to adjust BP so let me address that first before mentioning something else. TampaFZ6 has the right idea in terms of trying not to do three things at once but the suggestion to wait until right before turn in leaves little time. If you wait to set up your BP until the moment of turn in you will be trying to move your body (which can unsettle the bike a little) look into the turn and turn the bike at roughly the same time. Busy, busy, busy.

A better idea would be to get the BP set up BEFORE you actually start the braking, that way when you get to the turn you just turn in and your body is already set up. The knee can just fall out if you need it out or stay tucked against the tank if you don't. Try to move around on the bike as little as possible and eliminate any unnecessary movements. Most people work too hard and move too much and the bike would rather you didn't

Now, Lonesoldier84....you mention that you wait until "just before the apex" to roll on the gas and I'm wondering how you came to choose that particular part of the turn to roll on the gas? Why would you wait until just before the apex to roll on the gas? What exactly does rolling on the gas do for the bike?

Misti

Misti said:

My first thought is that you have WAY to many things going on at once here. You are trying to do too much at one time and it is getting confusing. My suggestion is to pick one thing at a time to work on, get that sorted and then work on something else.

I would forget about working on heavy braking for the time being. There is no need to brake as hard as possible when riding on the street or even doing a track day. Smooth gradual braking and corner entry is fine. Learn the skills before trying to add something like heavy braking as you will most likely end up charging the corners and going slower.

We were talking about when to adjust BP so let me address that first before mentioning something else. TampaFZ6 has the right idea in terms of trying not to do three things at once but the suggestion to wait until right before turn in leaves little time. If you wait to set up your BP until the moment of turn in you will be trying to move your body (which can unsettle the bike a little) look into the turn and turn the bike at roughly the same time. Busy, busy, busy.

A better idea would be to get the BP set up BEFORE you actually start the braking, that way when you get to the turn you just turn in and your body is already set up. The knee can just fall out if you need it out or stay tucked against the tank if you don't. Try to move around on the bike as little as possible and eliminate any unnecessary movements. Most people work too hard and move too much and the bike would rather you didn't

Now, Lonesoldier84....you mention that you wait until "just before the apex" to roll on the gas and I'm wondering how you came to choose that particular part of the turn to roll on the gas? Why would you wait until just before the apex to roll on the gas? What exactly does rolling on the gas do for the bike?

Misti

Click to expand...

Ooh. Very helpful that is. Cheers.

Why do I roll on just before the apex? Because it aids in smoothing out the transition from throttle off to throttle on. I start feeding in the throttle a bit just before the apex. that way, as I have hit the apex I get into the beefier part of the roll-on where I just crank it as much as it will take it without sending me wide at that point or throwing me off a decent entry to the next corner.

If I get on the throttle after that point, feeding the throttle quickly results in not-smooth inputs. maybe it's because the FZ has a less than smooth throttle on/off transition (ESPECIALLY in ~mid 1st gear). but I find cracking the throttle on and starting the roll-on before i hit the apex allows for me to roll on aggressively after i have hit the apex.