Erik Buell Racing is up and running - 1190RR revealed

Hellgate

Moto Demi-God
Moderator
Elite Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
6,929
Reaction score
85
Points
48
Location
AUSTX
Visit site
Pretty cool huh?

I'm hoping there a tons of cool bits including body work that come out; I'm hoping for a Barracuda boddy kit!
 

rsw81

Keep it Kosher
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
1,852
Reaction score
80
Points
0
Location
Boston, MA
Visit site
Sweet Jebus... glad to hear he's got his gloves back on and back in the ring.:thumbup:
 

Wavex

Lazy Mod :D
Moderator
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
5,124
Reaction score
119
Points
0
Location
Long Beach, CA
Visit site
You like the 185HP at the rear wheel Rob? heheh crazy

I want to try that race seat on my XB... looks like it'd be a simply swap... :D
 

Wavex

Lazy Mod :D
Moderator
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
5,124
Reaction score
119
Points
0
Location
Long Beach, CA
Visit site
Erik Buell Racing 1190RR: 185hp AMA/WSBK Spec’d

Erik Buell Racing has just updated its website, and released the first real clear shot of what the EBR 1190RR will look like it in its racing form. With 185hp being made at the rear-wheel (according to the optimistic DynoJet dynamometer), the EBR 1190RR sits at the top of the Buell totem poll. Erik Buell Racing has spec’d the machine to be legal in both the AMA and WSBK, but the 1190RR is not homologated for neither the AMA American Superbike class (yet?), nor for WSBK (even bigger question mark).
Based off the 1125R chassis, the 1190RR is virtually anorexic, dropping 30lbs off the AMA Daytona Superbike racing machine, while still bumping up displacement by 65cc’s. With 93lb•ft of torque on hand at 9,500 RPM, the EBR 1190RR is sure to sling your eye balls into the back of your head…if you can find a racing series to race it in.





Erik-Buell-Racing-1190rr.jpg
 

Hellgate

Moto Demi-God
Moderator
Elite Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
6,929
Reaction score
85
Points
48
Location
AUSTX
Visit site
I read that two or three of the 1190s were sold to a team in Europe. The're racing at a national level; like a British Superbike. Can I be more vague, probably. I'll see if I can find their web site.

The compression ratio is about 14.25 to 1. Amazing.
 

razteo

Special Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2009
Messages
271
Reaction score
3
Points
0
Location
So Cal
Visit site
I'm glad this is happening - even only for Erik Buell as a person, not to mention the performance of his bikes.
 

Speedygonzales

Junior Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
304
Reaction score
3
Points
0
Location
Belgium
Visit site
I always liked Buells ... but I just don't get why he keeps that front brake setup on his race bikes. I get that Buells were different from other bikes, but that huge one disk setup is in no way as good as the traditional twin radial setups ... It seems that he just can't "cut his baby's" like they say in film/photography school.

Also 185hp on an optimistic dynojet ... the WSBK bikes put out 200hp @ the wheels ...

I'm not trying to "diss" the Buel racing project, but I think this is just a sinking ship. I really hope he proves me wrong, cause he really has a passion for bikes.
 

Wavex

Lazy Mod :D
Moderator
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
5,124
Reaction score
119
Points
0
Location
Long Beach, CA
Visit site
but that huge one disk setup is in no way as good as the traditional twin radial setups ...

What do you base that statement on? What I've read was that performance is very similar, but with less torsional load (since it's mounted on the rim) and much less weight (since there's only one disk/caliper).

That's also why other ppl are slowly looking into similar designs... here is an example:
Brakko Combined Wheel Brake System

Also 185hp on an optimistic dynojet ... the WSBK bikes put out 200hp @ the wheels ...

HP is not everything... WSBK bikes make more HP than MotoGP bikes, but MotoGP bikes are faster around a track (more HP doesn't automatically mean more performance)... torque peak number and torque curves are just as important... just like weight etc....
 

Hellgate

Moto Demi-God
Moderator
Elite Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
6,929
Reaction score
85
Points
48
Location
AUSTX
Visit site
Here's the team that bought the 1190's: Front

The front brake works fine, better - worse? Ehh...it is a simpler design. It works fine, in fact it's very good with EBC pads and the new slotted rotor.

The new 1190 motor is killer. I'm getting 140 in Dyno Jet numbers, I can't imagine what 185 is like. As far as 200 out of a WSB, I'm skeptical. The new BMW is supposed to be about 200 hp but they keep getting beat by the Ducs and the GSXRs.
 

Hellgate

Moto Demi-God
Moderator
Elite Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
6,929
Reaction score
85
Points
48
Location
AUSTX
Visit site
Lots of skuttle-butt around those numbers. "Bike" magazine got 183.7 hp.

Not to poo-poo the bike at all btw, it is an outstanding bike, just the dyno run that produced the numbers has been questioned by many people/places and things.

Keith Code posted up on the Aprilia site abou the bike, he love it: http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196836&page=6

But this thread IS about the 1190RR.
 
Last edited:

Speedygonzales

Junior Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
304
Reaction score
3
Points
0
Location
Belgium
Visit site
What do you base that statement on? What I've read was that performance is very similar, but with less torsional load (since it's mounted on the rim) and much less weight (since there's only one disk/caliper).

That's also why other ppl are slowly looking into similar designs... here is an example:
Brakko Combined Wheel Brake System



HP is not everything... WSBK bikes make more HP than MotoGP bikes, but MotoGP bikes are faster around a track (more HP doesn't automatically mean more performance)... torque peak number and torque curves are just as important... just like weight etc....

I rode the 1125 for half a day and found the front brake not so good. They have good stopping power, but no good feel. A modern radial setup gives a lot more feel with braking imho.

And MotoGP have more power, weigh less and have a better chassis ... don't see the point of the comparison.

If the Buell is going to ride in the superbike class, you should compare it with other superbikes. And I know hp isn't everything. And I certanly don't think 185whp isn't a lot, cause it is. And the torque and curves are very important as well, thats true.
But the riders who ride @ that level will certanly feel the 15hp difference ... when everybody is so good and the bikes are so good, the little differences makes you a winner or a loser ...
 

Hellgate

Moto Demi-God
Moderator
Elite Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
6,929
Reaction score
85
Points
48
Location
AUSTX
Visit site
The brakes are very different between the bike you rode and the 1190. The 1190 used a Nissin radial brake M/C, the 6mm thick rotor (instead of the 5mm that is stock) and different brake pads.

I'm using the EBC HH pads and the feel is night an day from stock. Also, what year did you ride? For the first 6 months of '08 they used a pad that was so-so, then they updated to a different, better feeling pad.

I can say I like 1125 brake much better than the R6 brakes on my old FZ.

As far as HP I'm not aware of any magazines that have ridden a 1190, only the 1125RR. John Ulrich wrote a very good article on the RR and he stated it was down about 15 hp from AMA Superbikes, but was a very good handling bike once he set it up. The 1190 solves pretty much any hp issues.

As far a winners and loser, it 99.9% rider. Put Spies or Haga on a tricycle and they'll still win; a great rider finds a way to win.

I rode the 1125 for half a day and found the front brake not so good. They have good stopping power, but no good feel. A modern radial setup gives a lot more feel with braking imho.

And MotoGP have more power, weigh less and have a better chassis ... don't see the point of the comparison.

If the Buell is going to ride in the superbike class, you should compare it with other superbikes. And I know hp isn't everything. And I certanly don't think 185whp isn't a lot, cause it is. And the torque and curves are very important as well, thats true.
But the riders who ride @ that level will certanly feel the 15hp difference ... when everybody is so good and the bikes are so good, the little differences makes you a winner or a loser ...
 

Speedygonzales

Junior Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
304
Reaction score
3
Points
0
Location
Belgium
Visit site
The brakes are very different between the bike you rode and the 1190. The 1190 used a Nissin radial brake M/C, the 6mm thick rotor (instead of the 5mm that is stock) and different brake pads.

I'm using the EBC HH pads and the feel is night an day from stock. Also, what year did you ride? For the first 6 months of '08 they used a pad that was so-so, then they updated to a different, better feeling pad.

I can say I like 1125 brake much better than the R6 brakes on my old FZ.

As far as HP I'm not aware of any magazines that have ridden a 1190, only the 1125RR. John Ulrich wrote a very good article on the RR and he stated it was down about 15 hp from AMA Superbikes, but was a very good handling bike once he set it up. The 1190 solves pretty much any hp issues.

As far a winners and loser, it 99.9% rider. Put Spies or Haga on a tricycle and they'll still win; a great rider finds a way to win.

A good radial MC wil indeed help a lot with the feel I guess. The bike I rode was an '08 ... I liked the bike, I liked the torque a lot! And the gearbox was super smooth compared to my FZ6.

The rider is quite important in motobike racing. And I would really like to see an 1190 running with the top 10 in wsbk ... that would be awsome :thumbup:.

I just got a feeling with eric buell that he's just a bit stubburn when it comes to his "inventions". But hey ... if everybody would just go with the flow, there would be no real progress any more.
 

Wavex

Lazy Mod :D
Moderator
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
5,124
Reaction score
119
Points
0
Location
Long Beach, CA
Visit site
I rode the 1125 for half a day and found the front brake not so good. They have good stopping power, but no good feel. A modern radial setup gives a lot more feel with braking imho.

from "no way as good as radial" to "not a good feel"...

OK!

And MotoGP have more power, weigh less and have a better chassis ... don't see the point of the comparison.

Could you please provide the data that allows you to state that MotoGP bikes "have more power" (HP/torque) than WSBK bikes? I am curious since I've always thought it was the opposite.
My point which you failed to understand was that even if all WSBK bikes all made 200HP except for the Buell, it doesn't mean the Buell will be slower on the track... for all you know that Buell has double the torque and is half the weight of all other WSBK bikes... I involved MotoGP to illustrate that point. Throwing HP numbers out there (like you originally did) without considering a lot of other points makes little sense imo.

If the Buell is going to ride in the superbike class, you should compare it with other superbikes. And I know hp isn't everything. And I certanly don't think 185whp isn't a lot, cause it is. And the torque and curves are very important as well, thats true.
But the riders who ride @ that level will certanly feel the 15hp difference ... when everybody is so good and the bikes are so good, the little differences makes you a winner or a loser ...

hmmm No, sorry. You cannot look at HP alone and tell me the Buell won't be competitive because it -supposedly- has 15HP less than other bikes... and btw, where do you get the 200RWHP number for WSBK bikes?
 
Last edited:

Hellgate

Moto Demi-God
Moderator
Elite Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
6,929
Reaction score
85
Points
48
Location
AUSTX
Visit site
A good radial MC wil indeed help a lot with the feel I guess. The bike I rode was an '08 ... I liked the bike, I liked the torque a lot! And the gearbox was super smooth compared to my FZ6.

The rider is quite important in motobike racing. And I would really like to see an 1190 running with the top 10 in wsbk ... that would be awsome :thumbup:.

I just got a feeling with eric buell that he's just a bit stubburn when it comes to his "inventions". But hey ... if everybody would just go with the flow, there would be no real progress any more.

You are correct about stubborn. The mechanic at the local HD shop I go to was complaining that the factory wouldn't listen to concerns that the field was telling them. They only voiced, "Erik" and didn't listen to reason.

Did the bike you ride have the most recent flash? For the '08 R it is the 062. With that flash the bike runs very good. Also ask the owner to try a different pad; EBC or Lyndall are both very good, have much more initial bite, and provide better feel.

I have a set of EBC pads for the rear brake but I've not installed them yet. I think the rear brake is terrible. Completely numb and wooden feeling. I'm hoping the EBCs help.
 

Chris

GO!!!!!!!
Joined
Sep 1, 2008
Messages
570
Reaction score
47
Points
0
Location
Earth (GMT+1)
Visit site
Lots of skuttle-butt around those numbers. "Bike" magazine got 183.7 hp.

Not to poo-poo the bike at all btw, it is an outstanding bike, just the dyno run that produced the numbers has been questioned by many people/places and things.

That's 183.7 bhp at the rear wheel, which is about 20 bhp more than the big four Jap manufacturers. 192 is at the crank. WSBK bikes are supposed to make around 200 bhp at the rear wheel, which is not unlikely considering the mods that are made to them.

But this thread IS about the 1190RR.
You're right, sorry! :p
 

Speedygonzales

Junior Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
304
Reaction score
3
Points
0
Location
Belgium
Visit site
from "no way as good as radial" to "not a good feel"...

OK!



Could you please provide the data that allows you to state that MotoGP bikes "have more power" (HP/torque) than WSBK bikes? I am curious since I've always thought it was the opposite.
My point which you failed to understand was that even if all WSBK bikes all made 200HP except for the Buell, it doesn't mean the Buell will be slower on the track... for all you know that Buell has double the torque and is half the weight of all other WSBK bikes... I involved MotoGP to illustrate that point. Throwing HP numbers out there (like you originally did) without considering a lot of other points makes little sense imo.



hmmm No, sorry. You cannot look at HP alone and tell me the Buell won't be competitive because it -supposedly- has 15HP less than other bikes... and btw, where do you get the 200RWHP number for WSBK bikes?

Ok man you win ... I'm done ... pfjew ... I'm an idiot, you know best ...
 
Top