Hardest technique to master

Misti

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Hey Ladies,

Just wondering what you each find is the hardest motorcycle riding technique, or part of riding, to master? Does it have to do with cornering, shifting, throttle control, body position? What do you find is a hard technique to get right?

Misti
 

cv_rider

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I suck at looking through the turns. I feel uncomfortable not being intimately aware of what the front tire is about to roll over. I tend to focus primarily on what is in front of me. I know I should be looking further ahead and "trusting" that the road immediately ahead of me is good 'cause I was just looking at it a moment ago.

[Oops, this was the ladies forum, didn't notice. Some men (at least me) have troubling mastering some techniques too.
 
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crabby117

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I'd have to say taking off from a stop on an incline. I'm a bit short, so on an incline I'd rather have both feet down. But on a steep incline, I need to use the rear brake and throttle to prevent from rolling back. My hands aren't big enough to use the front brake and throttle simultaneously while opening the throttle (closing is no problem). I need more practice w/ it, but where I live is a very flat area and no particularly challenging inclines. Visited an area w/ a steep incline and stalled the bike twice trying to take off at a stop light. :rolleyes: Better than the alternative of rolling back, though! Luckily the car behind me was patient enough not to honk at me while I struggled.
 

Kazza

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My biggest problem is keeping the right line through roundabouts. I always tend to ride straight through the oil patch in the centre of the lane, no matter how hard I try not to.
 

dean owens

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I'd have to say taking off from a stop on an incline. I'm a bit short, so on an incline I'd rather have both feet down. But on a steep incline, I need to use the rear brake and throttle to prevent from rolling back. My hands aren't big enough to use the front brake and throttle simultaneously while opening the throttle (closing is no problem). I need more practice w/ it, but where I live is a very flat area and no particularly challenging inclines. Visited an area w/ a steep incline and stalled the bike twice trying to take off at a stop light. :rolleyes: Better than the alternative of rolling back, though! Luckily the car behind me was patient enough not to honk at me while I struggled.

i know this is the lady's section... and i'm not misti...
but we have a few hills around here. i too am short and can't flat foot the bike. i have to stop on my tiptoes. here's what i do when on an incline.

- come to a stop in first gear squeezing clutch and front brake.
- slowly let out the clutch
- at the friction zone you will feel the rear of the bike start to "lift" and the front start to "dive"
- at this point i can usually let off the front brake and the bike will stay put
- to take off start to give a little throttle and let the clutch out a little more

it takes a little bit of practice but after a while you'll get it. if you can find a loading dock at a shop/factory or behind a store they are a great place to practice.

i look forward to hearing if misti has a better technique to help us shorter people out.
 

lytehouse

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I think I'd have to say cornering....I find myself always slowing down (alot) when I see a corner coming up that I can't see around. Fear of what I cannot see, I guess.
I would like to do a track to help my confidence about leaning it too, but in Colorado they require full leathers. Not really happy about having to buy full leathers just to do a track day!
 

Kazza

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Also have to admit to having problems with hill starts - not too bad any more. Practice makes perfect.

Used to have trouble with cornering - I would brake through the corner. Now have the confidence to brake before and accelerate through the corner. As long as you look through the corner and don't panic. Have confidence and keep your line. Doing this makes the bike handle a lot better - well, for me anyway.

Still, a trackday would be the best practice of all. I have to do one. Next time Trackdayz come to Perth, I'm there...
 

Misti

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I suck at looking through the turns. I feel uncomfortable not being intimately aware of what the front tire is about to roll over. I tend to focus primarily on what is in front of me. I know I should be looking further ahead and "trusting" that the road immediately ahead of me is good 'cause I was just looking at it a moment ago.

[Oops, this was the ladies forum, didn't notice. Some men (at least me) have troubling mastering some techniques too.

Hahaha, no worries. I'll post this question or one similar in the riding technique section for all riders but I'll comment here anyway, even though you are a guy :BLAA:

This is a common problem and it effects your riding in several different ways. First of all, you tend to "GO WHERE YOU LOOK" so if you allow your eyes to be looking too close in front of you and not through the turn it becomes easier to target lock on things that you don't want to hit, like gravel in the road, a pothole a patch of water etc. Secondly, when you don't lift your eyes up to look through the corner you sense of speed goes up and you end up feeling like you are going faster than you really are and that can caus you to use more brakes than necessary or brake mid corner when you didn't need too.

So, how do you break this bad habit? You have done the first step here by acknowledging the fact that you don't look far enough ahead. The next step is to start lifting your eyes up a little bit further each time you ride. If you are looking 5 feet in front of the bike, next time try to look 10 feet ahead and see if you notice a difference with your riding and how the bike responds, also see what it does for your confidence.

Have you guys ever heard of the term Vanishing point? Does anyone here look to the vanishing point when riding? What do you think the vanishing point is and how can it help you with your riding?

Misti
 

Misti

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I'd have to say taking off from a stop on an incline. I'm a bit short, so on an incline I'd rather have both feet down. But on a steep incline, I need to use the rear brake and throttle to prevent from rolling back. My hands aren't big enough to use the front brake and throttle simultaneously while opening the throttle (closing is no problem). I need more practice w/ it, but where I live is a very flat area and no particularly challenging inclines. Visited an area w/ a steep incline and stalled the bike twice trying to take off at a stop light. :rolleyes: Better than the alternative of rolling back, though! Luckily the car behind me was patient enough not to honk at me while I struggled.

Sounds like you are doing the right things and in this case it might just be a case of practice makes perfect. I'm short as well and I was never able to have both feet on the ground at the same time, so instead of teetering with both tip toes, I got really good at planting just ONE foot on the ground. I would slide my butt to one side, plant that foot and turn my hips INTO the bike. This made me feel very stable and I wasn't afraid of dropping the bike.

Another thing that might help, and it relates to the other comment about not looking through turns, is to see WHERE you are looking when you are stopped. What a lot of us shorter people do is tend to look right in front of us when we are stopped. Ever try to walk a balance beam while looking right at your feet? You lose your balance much easier than if you look further ahead. Same rings true for when you are balancing a motorcycle on your tip toes, look down or directly in front of you and your balance is not as good as if you keep your head up and looking down the road. See if that helps :) :cheer:

A common theme here it seems is visual skills. WHERE your eyes look while riding is directly related to HOW well you end up riding. How do you notice your eyes helping or hindering your riding?

Misti
 

Kazza

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Hahaha, no worries. I'll post this question or one similar in the riding technique section for all riders but I'll comment here anyway, even though you are a guy :BLAA:

This is a common problem and it effects your riding in several different ways. First of all, you tend to "GO WHERE YOU LOOK" so if you allow your eyes to be looking too close in front of you and not through the turn it becomes easier to target lock on things that you don't want to hit, like gravel in the road, a pothole a patch of water etc. Secondly, when you don't lift your eyes up to look through the corner you sense of speed goes up and you end up feeling like you are going faster than you really are and that can caus you to use more brakes than necessary or brake mid corner when you didn't need too.

So, how do you break this bad habit? You have done the first step here by acknowledging the fact that you don't look far enough ahead. The next step is to start lifting your eyes up a little bit further each time you ride. If you are looking 5 feet in front of the bike, next time try to look 10 feet ahead and see if you notice a difference with your riding and how the bike responds, also see what it does for your confidence.

Have you guys ever heard of the term Vanishing point? Does anyone here look to the vanishing point when riding? What do you think the vanishing point is and how can it help you with your riding?

Misti
I think the VP is the last point you can see in the road ahead/around a corner. You keep looking there when riding. You naturally start riding towards this point. If you look down at the pavement, you end up riding into it. You have to look right through the corners, head up.

I hope I've explained myself properly...
 

Misti

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I think the VP is the last point you can see in the road ahead/around a corner. You keep looking there when riding. You naturally start riding towards this point. If you look down at the pavement, you end up riding into it. You have to look right through the corners, head up.

I hope I've explained myself properly...

Ya, you explained yourself well. Another point about the VP is that it gives you information about the corner coming up that you wouldn't be able to get if you weren't looking at it. If the VP is coming closer to you then the corner will tighten up. If it moves away from you then the corner will open up and if it stays the same then it is an indication that the corner is a constant radius turn.

What other ways can you garner information about the road ahead and use it to improve your riding?

Misti
 

arkay

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I'd have to say taking off from a stop on an incline. I'm a bit short, so on an incline I'd rather have both feet down. But on a steep incline, I need to use the rear brake and throttle to prevent from rolling back. My hands aren't big enough to use the front brake and throttle simultaneously while opening the throttle (closing is no problem). I need more practice w/ it, but where I live is a very flat area and no particularly challenging inclines. Visited an area w/ a steep incline and stalled the bike twice trying to take off at a stop light. :rolleyes: Better than the alternative of rolling back, though! Luckily the car behind me was patient enough not to honk at me while I struggled.

A hill start should be executed using a combination of rear brake, clutch and throttle. With your foot hard on the rear brake give a bit of throttle and let out the clutch until you get the bite point, slowly lift off the brake while simultaneously adding throttle and releasing clutch, at the point of moving forward you'll probably be slipping the clutch and "binding" the rear brake which is OK, the more you do it the more seemless it becomes and the clutch slipping and brake binding all but disappear. Try it two up, with the weight of a pillion on the back once you master it doing it solo is easy. The front brake shouldn't really be used for any slow speed manouvres.
 

MG-242

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So, how do you break this bad habit? You have done the first step here by acknowledging the fact that you don't look far enough ahead. The next step is to start lifting your eyes up a little bit further each time you ride. If you are looking 5 feet in front of the bike, next time try to look 10 feet ahead and see if you notice a difference with your riding and how the bike responds, also see what it does for your confidence.
You can practice keeping your eyes up all the time. While walking, running, on the treadmill, driving, etc. Track days do a great job of training. To survive riding on the street, this is an essential skill!
 

Misti

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You can practice keeping your eyes up all the time. While walking, running, on the treadmill, driving, etc. Track days do a great job of training. To survive riding on the street, this is an essential skill!

Yes, good point. I practice while driving all the time. There is another technique that can help improve your visual skills and we call it the "Two-step" at the California Superbike School.

What happens for a lot of riders is that they end up looking and turning into a corner at the same time. When you look and turn at the same time you really don't have much information about the corner coming up, nor do you have a very good idea of where exactly you want the bike to end up in that corner. By breaking that habit and trying to look into the corner FIRST, BEFORE you actually turn the bike, you give yourself some more info about what is coming up and you are more likely to have a better idea of where you want to be in that corner.

Has anyone heard of this before, or tried it? Did you notice a difference?

Misti
 

Dennis in NH

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I'd have to say taking off from a stop on an incline. I'm a bit short, so on an incline I'd rather have both feet down. But on a steep incline, I need to use the rear brake and throttle to prevent from rolling back. My hands aren't big enough to use the front brake and throttle simultaneously while opening the throttle (closing is no problem). I need more practice w/ it, but where I live is a very flat area and no particularly challenging inclines. Visited an area w/ a steep incline and stalled the bike twice trying to take off at a stop light. :rolleyes: Better than the alternative of rolling back, though! Luckily the car behind me was patient enough not to honk at me while I struggled.

I would put down a 2x4 board and place your front tire right up next to it and then try to ride over it. This will give you some resistance to simulate an incline (not that big of an incline). Do this every time you ride (if you can); or do it as much as possible to keep in practice.

Hopefully, you can find a nice hill to practice. I used to avoid hills because I was afraid of stalling. Sometimes, it was very inconvenient.

In my early riding days, I practiced and was ok. Then I went to Bike Week here in NH and got stuck in traffic on a steep hill -- stop and go for about 30 minutes. After that, I got pretty good. Fun to watch the Harley riders stalling :D.

Dennis

[edit] ps. Oh shoot -- ladies section! sorry 'bout that.
 

RJ2112

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Yes, good point. I practice while driving all the time. There is another technique that can help improve your visual skills and we call it the "Two-step" at the California Superbike School.

What happens for a lot of riders is that they end up looking and turning into a corner at the same time. When you look and turn at the same time you really don't have much information about the corner coming up, nor do you have a very good idea of where exactly you want the bike to end up in that corner. By breaking that habit and trying to look into the corner FIRST, BEFORE you actually turn the bike, you give yourself some more info about what is coming up and you are more likely to have a better idea of where you want to be in that corner.

Has anyone heard of this before, or tried it? Did you notice a difference?

Misti

I attended ART in Oregon a few years ago..... one of the principal teaching points was addressing this very issue.

We were taught 'delayed apex'...... don't start the turn until you can see the exit. Stay 'outside' until you can see beyond the apex, to where the road goes next.

That instills good braking discipline, too..... get all (or most) of the braking done while you are still vertical, so you can use all of your traction for the turn, when you commit to it.

The course is run on a GoKart track. Loads of fun. Effectively a single width roadway with seriously nasty turns and combination turns. We ended up doing the entire track CW and CCW over the course of the day. Big fun, big improvement in cornering skills for the major part of the students.
 

Misti

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I attended ART in Oregon a few years ago..... one of the principal teaching points was addressing this very issue.

We were taught 'delayed apex'...... don't start the turn until you can see the exit. Stay 'outside' until you can see beyond the apex, to where the road goes next.

That instills good braking discipline, too..... get all (or most) of the braking done while you are still vertical, so you can use all of your traction for the turn, when you commit to it.

The course is run on a GoKart track. Loads of fun. Effectively a single width roadway with seriously nasty turns and combination turns. We ended up doing the entire track CW and CCW over the course of the day. Big fun, big improvement in cornering skills for the major part of the students.

Good explanation. I also like how you mention that not starting the turn until you can see the apex also helps you develop good braking discipline. So many people out there think that they need to brake hard all the way to the apex before rolling on the gas. Getting on the gas asap after you turn the bike helps get it stable. Why would you want to wait until the apex to get a stable bike?

Misti
 

RJ2112

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Good explanation. I also like how you mention that not starting the turn until you can see the apex also helps you develop good braking discipline. So many people out there think that they need to brake hard all the way to the apex before rolling on the gas. Getting on the gas asap after you turn the bike helps get it stable. Why would you want to wait until the apex to get a stable bike?

Misti

ART also made it obvious that the best apex for a particular turn was quite often NOT the mid point of the arc..... it's so much more important to set up where you are on the exit...... that's what should determine where you bring the bike to it's closest approach.

It also tends to allow you to 'honor' the centerline on public roads..... as you wait to toss it in, you also get a much better view of oncoming traffic and have a much better idea of how to shape your line as a result. Great apex, which results in you whacking your head on the mirror of an oncoming car really isn't so great......
 

Misti

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ART also made it obvious that the best apex for a particular turn was quite often NOT the mid point of the arc..... it's so much more important to set up where you are on the exit...... that's what should determine where you bring the bike to it's closest approach.

It also tends to allow you to 'honor' the centerline on public roads..... as you wait to toss it in, you also get a much better view of oncoming traffic and have a much better idea of how to shape your line as a result. Great apex, which results in you whacking your head on the mirror of an oncoming car really isn't so great......

Right. That is why looking into the corner BEFORE you actually turn the bike can be so beneficial. It gives you the time to see more of the turn, what it looks like, what obstacles might be in the way, and it allows you to pick your apex point. Breaking the bad habit of looking and turning at the same time really opens the doors, visually speaking, to so much more information about the upcoming corner.

Another thing that looking into the corner before you actually turn the bike does for you is that it slows down your perception of speed and allows you to enter turns faster than you may have felt comfortable doing before. Your sense of speed is directly related to how good (or bad) your visual skills are.

Misti
 

Kaz247

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Power wheelie!

I would love to be able to do it, just give myself whiplash trying.

A track day also sounds fun, learning to trust the bike to it's capabilities. Get ya knee down.

Oh dear I sound like a boy racer wanna be, one day I might grow up not yet though

Safe riding

Kaz
 
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