Advanced Riding (IAM RoSPA) questions

Are there any IAM, RoSPA or police riders on here? I took the Bike Safe class last week and have come up with a few questions.

According to IAM/RoSPA/roadcraft rules -

1. When stopping, I know you should cover the rear brake and only put the left foot down to stop. However, once stopped and it is safe behind you, is it OK to put the right foot down and cover the gear lever or do you always have to do the 'Croydon shuffle' and switch your feet back and forth?

2. When riding on a multi-lane road - let's say 3 lanes for argument - that is not a motorway, should I use the full width of my lane just like I was on a single lane B road or should I just maintain my normal line even when there's not a lot of traffic around or should I be moving back and forth between lanes to get the absolute best view around the corner possible?

Thanks!

Doorag said:

1. When stopping, I know you should cover the rear brake and only put the left foot down to stop. However, once stopped and it is safe behind you, is it OK to put the right foot down and cover the gear lever or do you always have to do the 'Croydon shuffle' and switch your feet back and forth?

Click to expand...

I was taught to always put the left foot down and shuffle depending on which way you are turning. When I took my road test, the guys giving the test told me to put both feet down every time I stopped. My MSF instructor was there with me and was like WTF is that guy talking about. I guess my point is... It will be different wherever you go and with different people which is BS. There should be one standard across the board.

Thanks. Riding 'style' is taught differently in the UK than it is in the US for some reason. I think the type of roads and the subsequent visibility has something to do with it. For example, I believe the US MSF teaches that you should take the 'racing line' through all turns, but in the UK they always recommend taking the widest line so you have the best and furthest visibility. We have a lot more single lane roads here where that makes sense than they do in the US. (In my experience anyway) Oh, and I'm American - not British - before you start telling me I don't know what it's like in the US.

My MSF taught me to make my turns using a 90 degree angle (don't cut corners) and always try to stay in the center of the lane.

Oh, as for the foot shuffle thing - they always teach in the UK to stop using both the front and rear brakes and keep the rear covered in case someone hits you from behind. If that happens, the rear brake will help reduce damage (as opposed to having the front brake on).

For short lights I do that and keep the bike in first gear and wait for the light. For longer lights, I'll drop into neutral and usually cover the front brake (if needed - there aren't many hills in London) so I was wondering what the advanced courses teach so I won't have to re-learn it later when I'm trying to pass my advanced rider test.

08-FZ6 said:

My MSF taught me to make my turns using a 90 degree angle (don't cut corners) and always try to stay in the center of the lane.

Click to expand...

Sorry, not turning into say a side street - those rules are the same. I mean on the open road when you have fairly sharp bends in the road - like out in the country.

Doorag said:

1. When stopping, I know you should cover the rear brake and only put the left foot down to stop. However, once stopped and it is safe behind you, is it OK to put the right foot down and cover the gear lever or do you always have to do the 'Croydon shuffle' and switch your feet back and forth?

Click to expand...

The cop that was with me on the bike safe day said it depends on the sort of bike you are riding and your stability (due to road slop) when you stop. While I was using my left leg to touch down and cover my bake break, he was using both feet on the ground because of his hulk bike. He said there is no point covering your brake if you will fall over.

I tend to keep my bike in gear covering the back brake. I use both feet on a long stop. and i do check my rear view mirror constantly

I had a bikesafe assessment a couple of weeks ago and I noticed that the police rider with me had rihgt and left foot down at different times so it seems that there may be room for interpretation.

Maybe MarkyG will see the post and offer guidance.

Hi all.

Some great points and comments already made.

I'll give a more in depth responce as I'm tight for time right now as fast blue one asked me to input. I'm not a police biker or instructor, but am an IAM / Bike Safe observer

One thing i will say is that like most things in life, you have to make things work for you as were all a box of choc's and no one rule for putting a foot down or more is hard and fast. I wouldn't make an issue of this if I was observing for Bike Safe or IAM, as long a safety is there and you can do the biz, thats all that really matters.

TTFN

Mark:thumbup:

Hi again.

Hope this makes sense.

The 2 Q’s were

1. When stopping, I know you should cover the rear brake and only put the left foot down to stop. However, once stopped and it is safe behind you, is it OK to put the right foot down and cover the gear lever or do you always have to do the 'Croydon shuffle' and switch your feet back and forth?

Answer.

As previously stated I’m not a Police biker or instructor, but am an IAM Observer and do Bike Safe Obs as well.

When I stop at say traffic lights or temporary stop, I place the right foot down, so allowing me to select neutral with my left foot and I can cover the front break with my right hand. This also means that in preparation for the circumstances changing I’m ready to move off. However we don’t live in utopia, hence say we stop at say a set of lights, which is on a hill (lots around here) then the Hendon Shuffle from the above position comes in to play when about to move off as it’s easier on the right hand to have the right foot (left on the ground) covering the rear brake which allows you to apply throttle evenly as opposed to doing throttle and covering the front break with your right hand at the same time(You know what us Guys are like at Multi Tasking.. LOL)

As an Observer, I would look for control, command of the bike and an image of smoothness, personified, however if you like me and have a poor sense of balance, well you can imaging what I look like some times. I’m sure there are purists out there who may disagree, however I’m the one in control of my bike.

2. When riding on a multi-lane road - let's say 3 lanes for argument - that is not a motorway, should I use the full width of my lane just like I was on a single lane B road or should I just maintain my normal line even when there's not a lot of traffic around or should I be moving back and forth between lanes to get the absolute best view around the corner possible?

Answer
I hope you pay your road fund licence as I do, if so, you have just as much right as JC driving his latest 4 wheel monster to have the best position on the road at that given moment.
But in the circumstances you describe, I take it that there is the likelihood of oncoming traffic and then SSV comes in to play, Safety Stability and View. Safety should never be compromised by Position and in respect of the situation you describe I would exercise caution from remaining in lane 3, when you can be making equal progress in lane 1 and have the same view. Of course you should look to optimise visibility when possible, given SSV, whilst being aware of what going on around you 360’

I don’t claim to be the worlds authority on riding a road bike, my mission whenever I’m on 2 wheels and sitting in 4 is to arrive at the destination in one piece, having ridden / driven as smoothly as possible, whilst portraying to other road users the image of confidence and competence, whilst riding / driving to the road conditions and having made progress within the law. Oh Yes!! have enjoyed the experience.

PS, I still miss my Fazer, but love my GS.

When there was any doubt about a procedure. my observer would always say 'This is advanced riding, there is no right & wrong, as long as you can justify your actions to the examiner'

That said I trained with a IAM group in Worcestershire & was tested in Birmingham, here they like the Hendon shuffle. I almost always engage neutral when I come to a complete stop. But, the caveat above still applies.

As for the road position, the golden rule is 'you should be able to stop in the distance you can see'. Obviously there are many variables that will influence this, speed & position being the most obvious. You can sit on the inside of the inside lane at 70, if is safe to do so (I wouldn't, but you could).

If you feel it is necessary to move out to improve your view (even on a two-way street) then do it, as long as it is safe!