DeepBlueRider
Junior Member
One of members asked me via PM about upgrading master cylinder on FZ6. I've decided to post in public so other could chime in and "re-validate" my approach.
Disclaimer: I haven't put yet radial MC on my FZ6. I'm quite happy with stock MC performance, but I've did that on two other bikes ER6N (GSXR750 MC) and SV650S (R1 MC) so there might be some issues on FZ6 I haven't found yet.
When it comes to brake performance on my bikes, my routine is all the same:
1) Stainless steel brake lines
2) Quality brake fluid
3) Brake pads
4) Master cylinder
1) Stainless steel lines will help transfer pressure created in MC to pistons. If you have old, rubber lines they may develop tendency to expand before starting transfer pressure to caliper.
2) After installing SS lines, you have to put new fluid anyway
Use some quality fluid (I'm using motul racing fluid) and put attention to bleed all the air out. I usually struggle a little to get firm lever. My first SS lines installation took 3 or 4 bleedings (because of bad technique) to get all the air out. Having bleeder screw at MC helps a lot.
I usually start with reverse bleeding - I'm opening a bleeder and pushing fluid up to master cylinder with syringe. This technique is quite controversial as if you put too much pressure, you might blow MC seals. After initial bleeding I'm doing regular bleeding.
3) Brake pads. For me brake performance is one of most important aspects of motorcycle safety. I don't think in terms of soft pads, hard pads or what rotor wear will be. I realize some pads might be harder on rotors than other, but I'm accepting this as part of cost related to this sport.
That said I'm using HH pads. However I'm not fan of EBC. Those always gave me strange, wooden (not grabby) feel, lacking initial bite. I like to think that initial bite it’s helping me to not do full hand grab in emergency situation. Just tap a lever and you can feel bike is already slowing down, then just progressively add more pressure to the spot you want. For me initial bite of pads is removing some sort of panic when you’re touching the brakes and bike doesn’t stop. Then usually people have tendency to grab it more and that could lead to locking front. (I know, I’m weirdo seeing and believing stuff...)
My personal choice for time being are DP Brakes - SDP SPORT HH+. It settle in on rotors after couple brakings, provide good performance both cold and hot. I found them usable in variety of conditions: track, street (dry&wet). Set costs me something like $60-70 but I'm getting this at friendly shop and I haven't looked elsewhere so maybe you can get them cheaper.
I haven't tried Vesrah, but those are highly recommended by people I trust.
4) So Time to talk about master cylinder. If all above haven't gave you performance you're looking for, you might want to try different M/C.
You can use almost any MC available on the market if you wish. Most important thing to remember is to use master cylinders designed to push same or more fluid. Ie. If you have 4 pistons per caliper, don't use master cylinder that came off bike with 1 piston per caliper.
Now coming back to FZ6 upgrade. As FZ6 master cylinder is pretty decent, you're most likely benefit from upgrade to radial type with larger bore piston. This will result in less force on hand to achieve higher brake pressure. However, often trade off will be little more lever travel.
You might consider getting brembo or used 2006+ R1 as those are quite popular, have good design (it's pretty much brembo) and quite cheap. Be really careful with GSXR M/C as those are subject to recall.
On technical side you will have to take care of is position of output port. On FZ6 master cylinder it's on the left side, while most radials (including mentioned R1) have one on the bottom. If you have enough slack in lines you can just rotate lines and mount them in 90 degree angle, but that might lead to problems with bleeding. Air might have tendency to get trapped there. Best solution is to order custom lines. On my wifes SV650 we had to mount lines up-side-down to get better angles at banjo bolts and it worked but in the end I've ordered custom lines and those are much nicer.
One thing you will have to take care on FZ6 is mounting brake fluid reservoir. I've heard about bracket called "ladybird". Looks interesting but I haven't tried it and most likely it wont work on R1's MC as it's bolts are "diving" into holes in handlebar bracket. Maybe custom spacer and bolt could help. You can also check woodcraft's universal mount bracket. But I haven't tried any of those on FZ6.
That's all I had to share about upgrading brakes on FZ6 (or actually any bike) including MC. I will probably change my FZ6 MC soon so I will update you with more details.
If you are still reading this - congratulations You're in minority of people who get through all of that
I hope some will find this useful while others will share their approache and experience.
Disclaimer: I haven't put yet radial MC on my FZ6. I'm quite happy with stock MC performance, but I've did that on two other bikes ER6N (GSXR750 MC) and SV650S (R1 MC) so there might be some issues on FZ6 I haven't found yet.
When it comes to brake performance on my bikes, my routine is all the same:
1) Stainless steel brake lines
2) Quality brake fluid
3) Brake pads
4) Master cylinder
1) Stainless steel lines will help transfer pressure created in MC to pistons. If you have old, rubber lines they may develop tendency to expand before starting transfer pressure to caliper.
2) After installing SS lines, you have to put new fluid anyway
Use some quality fluid (I'm using motul racing fluid) and put attention to bleed all the air out. I usually struggle a little to get firm lever. My first SS lines installation took 3 or 4 bleedings (because of bad technique) to get all the air out. Having bleeder screw at MC helps a lot.I usually start with reverse bleeding - I'm opening a bleeder and pushing fluid up to master cylinder with syringe. This technique is quite controversial as if you put too much pressure, you might blow MC seals. After initial bleeding I'm doing regular bleeding.
3) Brake pads. For me brake performance is one of most important aspects of motorcycle safety. I don't think in terms of soft pads, hard pads or what rotor wear will be. I realize some pads might be harder on rotors than other, but I'm accepting this as part of cost related to this sport.
That said I'm using HH pads. However I'm not fan of EBC. Those always gave me strange, wooden (not grabby) feel, lacking initial bite. I like to think that initial bite it’s helping me to not do full hand grab in emergency situation. Just tap a lever and you can feel bike is already slowing down, then just progressively add more pressure to the spot you want. For me initial bite of pads is removing some sort of panic when you’re touching the brakes and bike doesn’t stop. Then usually people have tendency to grab it more and that could lead to locking front. (I know, I’m weirdo seeing and believing stuff...)
My personal choice for time being are DP Brakes - SDP SPORT HH+. It settle in on rotors after couple brakings, provide good performance both cold and hot. I found them usable in variety of conditions: track, street (dry&wet). Set costs me something like $60-70 but I'm getting this at friendly shop and I haven't looked elsewhere so maybe you can get them cheaper.
I haven't tried Vesrah, but those are highly recommended by people I trust.
4) So Time to talk about master cylinder. If all above haven't gave you performance you're looking for, you might want to try different M/C.
You can use almost any MC available on the market if you wish. Most important thing to remember is to use master cylinders designed to push same or more fluid. Ie. If you have 4 pistons per caliper, don't use master cylinder that came off bike with 1 piston per caliper.
Now coming back to FZ6 upgrade. As FZ6 master cylinder is pretty decent, you're most likely benefit from upgrade to radial type with larger bore piston. This will result in less force on hand to achieve higher brake pressure. However, often trade off will be little more lever travel.
You might consider getting brembo
or used 2006+ R1 as those are quite popular, have good design (it's pretty much brembo) and quite cheap. Be really careful with GSXR M/C as those are subject to recall.On technical side you will have to take care of is position of output port. On FZ6 master cylinder it's on the left side, while most radials (including mentioned R1) have one on the bottom. If you have enough slack in lines you can just rotate lines and mount them in 90 degree angle, but that might lead to problems with bleeding. Air might have tendency to get trapped there. Best solution is to order custom lines. On my wifes SV650 we had to mount lines up-side-down to get better angles at banjo bolts and it worked but in the end I've ordered custom lines and those are much nicer.
One thing you will have to take care on FZ6 is mounting brake fluid reservoir. I've heard about bracket called "ladybird". Looks interesting but I haven't tried it and most likely it wont work on R1's MC as it's bolts are "diving" into holes in handlebar bracket. Maybe custom spacer and bolt could help. You can also check woodcraft's universal mount bracket. But I haven't tried any of those on FZ6.
That's all I had to share about upgrading brakes on FZ6 (or actually any bike) including MC. I will probably change my FZ6 MC soon so I will update you with more details.
If you are still reading this - congratulations
You're in minority of people who get through all of that I hope some will find this useful while others will share their approache and experience.
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