Body position, skill, traction (loss of), lean angle = vid to discuss

FinalImpact · Apr 2, 2014

Q? - how aggressive is traction control on a bike? Are there any reported cases of riders high-siding from stepping the back out and having the TCS kick in?

The explanation here is this bumped his teammate and broke his traction control sensor which later resulted in this...
PICS: Pedrosa highside after Marquez contact, sensor failure | MotoGP News

Erci · Apr 2, 2014

FinalImpact said:
Q? - how aggressive is traction control on a bike? Are there any reported cases of riders high-siding from stepping the back out and having the TCS kick in?

The explanation here is this bumped his teammate and broke his traction control sensor which later resulted in this...
PICS: Pedrosa highside after Marquez contact, sensor failure | MotoGP News

That is exactly the example I was going to bring up to certain someone, but by then had realized I was wasting my time.

What happened in that particular case was Pedrosa, like all other racers today, whacking the throttle wide open, expecting electronics to give him best drive out of corner.

It's a perfect example of how amazing this technology is, how the rider no longer needs to be subtle and how it will bite the rider really hard if it fails.

Of course, this is racing, so it's a very different ball game. If you're not going for best lap time, you can still be smooth with inputs and if the electronics ever fail, the bike won't immediately kill you.

To answer your question: traction control typically has multiple settings which will affect how much it will allow rear wheel to spin up. If the system works properly, it should never let you kick the back way out and then cut in so hard that you high side.

Neal · Apr 15, 2014

Erci said:
That is exactly the example I was going to bring up to certain someone, but by then had realized I was wasting my time.

Then stop opening your mouth about subjects you know nothing about.

Whether there is or is not traction control does not affect ride by wire. You have displayed your ignorance ad nauseam.

Ride by wire is the connection between the throttle and the cpu. The CPU software has a set algorithm for the range of inputs from the throttle.
Traction control is a different system. The cpu shapes the inputs of the throttle irrespective of traction control according to its algorithm.

Secondly, the technophobe has reached ludicrous levels. The only reason the sensor "failed" on the bike is because Marquez clipped the back of Dani's motorcycle and broke the wire.

There is no reason to fear the failure of traction control anymore more than fearing, your swing arm falling off (ben spies @laguna), your front brakes failing, your tires falling off, your gear box failing, oil falling out of the bottom of your bike slicking out your back tire and the countless other things that can go wrong.

Lastly, because I think your main probable is you have a false perception of yourself which causes your nonsensical behavior and opinions I am going to point out to you something that either don't know or either have failed to realize about yourself.

Eric you are not a good or knowledgeable motorcycle rider you are only a safety guy for people who have never ridden before who just want to be able survive on the road or not fall over in the parking lot.

There is a paradigm shift between safety classes and riding schools, clearly you have no knowledge of the latter.

bdevries · Apr 15, 2014

Neal said:
Then stop opening your mouth about subjects you know nothing about.

Whether there is or is not traction control does not affect ride by wire. You have displayed your ignorance ad nauseam.

Ride by wire is the connection between the throttle and the cpu. The CPU software has a set algorithm for the range of inputs from the throttle.
Traction control is a different system. The cpu shapes the inputs of the throttle irrespective of traction control according to its algorithm.

Secondly, the technophobe has reached ludicrous levels. The only reason the sensor "failed" on the bike is because Marquez clipped the back of Dani's motorcycle and broke the wire.

There is no reason to fear the failure of traction control anymore more than fearing, your swing arm falling off (ben spies @laguna), your front brakes failing, your tires falling off, your gear box failing, oil falling out of the bottom of your bike slicking out your back tire and the countless other things that can go wrong.

Lastly, because I think your main probable is you have a false perception of yourself which causes your nonsensical behavior and opinions I am going to point out to you something that either don't know or either have failed to realize about yourself.

Eric you are not a good or knowledgeable motorcycle rider you are only a safety guy for people who have never ridden before who just want to be able survive on the road or not fall over in the parking lot.

There is a paradigm shift between safety classes and riding schools, clearly you have no knowledge of the latter.

If only you took the 2 weeks since the last post to think about your reply instead of getting all fired up and embarrassing yourself..

Neal · Apr 15, 2014

bdevries said:
If only you took the 2 weeks since the last post to think about your reply instead of getting all fired up and embarrassing yourself..

Thanks for sharing your personal journal entry.

lonesoldier84 · Apr 15, 2014

Neal said:
Then stop opening your mouth about subjects you know nothing about.

Lastly, because I think your main probable is you have a false perception of yourself which causes your nonsensical behavior and opinions I am going to point out to you something that either don't know or either have failed to realize about yourself.

Eric you are not a good or knowledgeable motorcycle rider you are only a safety guy for people who have never ridden before who just want to be able survive on the road or not fall over in the parking lot.

There is a paradigm shift between safety classes and riding schools, clearly you have no knowledge of the latter.

Criticism often reveals far more about the person offering it than the person it is directed at.

Maybe Erci is not the one here who should "stop opening [his] mouth about subjects [he] know nothing about".

If you're here to discuss track and technique, then you need to learn the first and most basic lesson about riding before you can start handing out anything even resembling advice...

...the name of the game is humility and co-operative development through positive reinforcement.

darius · Apr 15, 2014

And the thread has another off-track experience. Not enough electronics? :spank:

lonesoldier84 · Apr 15, 2014

Indeed.

Keep it on-track haha.

Dear Diary:

Is it just me or isn't this whole thing supposed to be about passion and love?
Ugh

Lol

Neal · Apr 15, 2014

lonesoldier84 said:
Criticism often reveals far more about the person offering it than the person it is directed at.

Maybe Erci is not the one here who should "stop opening [his] mouth about subjects [he] know nothing about".

If you're here to discuss track and technique, then you need to learn the first and most basic lesson about riding before you can start handing out anything even resembling advice...

...the name of the game is humility and co-operative development through positive reinforcement.

Clearly your post does not come form a position of understanding. Probably, you are posting a quip that has been directed at you many times (and rightly so) without knowing the depth of the statement which would explain the irony.

Erci · Apr 15, 2014

Neal said:
Then stop opening your mouth about subjects you know nothing about.

Whether there is or is not traction control does not affect ride by wire. You have displayed your ignorance ad nauseam.

Ride by wire is the connection between the throttle and the cpu. The CPU software has a set algorithm for the range of inputs from the throttle.
Traction control is a different system. The cpu shapes the inputs of the throttle irrespective of traction control according to its algorithm.

Secondly, the technophobe has reached ludicrous levels. The only reason the sensor "failed" on the bike is because Marquez clipped the back of Dani's motorcycle and broke the wire.

There is no reason to fear the failure of traction control anymore more than fearing, your swing arm falling off (ben spies @laguna), your front brakes failing, your tires falling off, your gear box failing, oil falling out of the bottom of your bike slicking out your back tire and the countless other things that can go wrong.

Lastly, because I think your main probable is you have a false perception of yourself which causes your nonsensical behavior and opinions I am going to point out to you something that either don't know or either have failed to realize about yourself.

Eric you are not a good or knowledgeable motorcycle rider you are only a safety guy for people who have never ridden before who just want to be able survive on the road or not fall over in the parking lot.

There is a paradigm shift between safety classes and riding schools, clearly you have no knowledge of the latter.

You will probably not be here long enough to respond, because a temporary ban did nothing to change your attitude, but I'll ask my question anyway: besides riding 10k miles on your bike with sophisticated electronics, what makes you such an expert on this subject? What do you know about me, about my riding experience? What gives you such incredibly unwavering conviction when so many people with more experience than you will potentially ever have say otherwise (since you will likely misunderstand this statement too.. let me clarify: I am not talking about myself).

Besides all that.. there is nothing wrong with having a strong belief (right or wrong) and it's great to learn from your own experience, but being incapable of arguing your point without resorting to sounding like a highschool bully.. that's not going to win you any medals or friends here (though it's pretty clear that you're not looking to make any).

kenh · Apr 15, 2014

One of the things that I have learned in my nearly 55 years of living is that life is very short. We are all constantly reminded of this just by reading the latest news story. The Forum is comprised of members from many diverse professions and yet come together in this relatively informal manner to share, discuss and offer their opinions about a particular topic that is centered around a lump of aluminum with two wheels. One of the reasons that the Forum works is that for every member asking a question, another is willing to step up and answer the question and share knowledge and experience.
This is the key element that helps elevate people. Knowledge is power. Spirited discussions can sometimes be beneficial, but respect for others has to be maintained. Just my .02 :iconbeer:

Now, FI what video do you have for us to discuss next?

darius · Apr 22, 2014

Here's a fresh one.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6YU8gpV8rY"]The Mulholland Snake - Yamaha R1 Crash #82 - YouTube[/ame]

FinalImpact · Apr 22, 2014

Saves -
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AyFzQg4i0Q"]Epic Highside Save Compilation - YouTube[/ame]

bdevries · Apr 23, 2014

darius said:
Here's a fresh one.

The Mulholland Snake - Yamaha R1 Crash #82 - YouTube

He appears to be leaning his body in the opposite direction he should which makes the bike have to compensate by leaning more

dbldutch02 · Apr 23, 2014

bdevries said:
He appears to be leaning his body in the opposite direction he should which makes the bike have to compensate by leaning more

^^what he said, plus awful binary throttle control (through the previous bends too)

FinalImpact · Apr 23, 2014

dbldutch02 said:
^^what he said, plus awful binary throttle control (through the previous bends too)

^^ + 1 (Reference: "Here's a fresh one" by Darius)
You can't play on the edge AND be grab@ss with the throttle! Foolish mistake on his part! That was just stupid! Even bad form but smooth can prevail!

Erci · Apr 23, 2014

darius said:
Here's a fresh one.

Wow.. I don't think most riders could intentionally be that awful with throttle! His body position didn't help things either.

Goop · Apr 23, 2014

darius said:
Here's a fresh one.

The Mulholland Snake - Yamaha R1 Crash #82 - YouTube

Can you imagine how upset his chassis is by going on and off like that?

FinalImpact · Apr 23, 2014

Goop said:
Can you imagine how upset his chassis is by going on and off like that?

Angry was the Chassis! Blah

darius · Apr 23, 2014

Erci said:
Wow.. I don't think most riders could intentionally be that awful with throttle! His body position didn't help things either.

He's probably used to pinning his scooter back in Taiwan. The vid description states he's visiting the US and borrowing the R1 from family.

When I watch the video I recall rule #1.

Body position, skill, traction (loss of), lean angle = vid to discuss

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