What fresh hell is this? - Whining engine noise, video included

[bricksrheavy]

Hello everybody,

Like the title says, during the last 5-6 days engine developed a whining noise that seems to come and go. I have a hard time figuring out where it's coming from but I suspect a stator problem.

I'm planing on checking everything this saturday but I'm hoping in the meantime someone might recognise the sound and steer me in the right direction.
- Valve clearances checked less than 1000 miles ago
- Oil&OEM filter changed ~2000 miles ago
- Timing OEM chain&tensioner changed ~1500 miles ago

EDIT;
Bike is an '06 model, 31k miles on the clock
https://youtu.be/wft3qoBnT1s

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

This wasn't the engine that was torn with a transmission noise was it? I forgot who the original OP was of that issue..

Anyway, either a stethoscope, or long screw driver (held up against your ear) should help you narrow it down...

I've never heard a similar noise, but definitely engine revolution related. I gather no popped engine codes?

Engine oil is good (not flooded with fuel)?

 

[bricksrheavy]

This wasn't the engine that was torn with a transmission noise was it? I forgot who the original OP was of that issue..

Anyway, either a stethoscope, or long screw driver (held up against your ear) should help you narrow it down...

I've never heard a similar noise, but definitely engine revolution related. I gather no popped engine codes?

Engine oil is good (not flooded with fuel)?

- No, not the guy who tore his engine apart
- No engine codes
- Gonna check the oil, interesting you thought of that - are you thinking loss of lubrication due to thinned out/diluted oil?

 

[Motogiro]

- No, not the guy who tore his engine apart
- No engine codes
- Gonna check the oil, interesting you thought of that - are you thinking loss of lubrication due to thinned out/diluted oil?

Still sounds like it's an engine chain related noise. Dont run it anymore till you investigate. Recheck that CCT even it it's new..

Sent from Moto's Motorola

 

[zixaq]

It doesn't sound the same as when my stator went out, but it's still a possibility. Easy enough to check the resistance on those coils.

More likely (and much scarier) is that it's something with the cam chain, since you messed with that recently.

 

[bricksrheavy]

...
Anyway, either a stethoscope, or long screw driver (held up against your ear) should help you narrow it down...
...

Well, after having my 3rd long Screwdriver this morning, (and starting to think Townsends might have pulled a fast one on me 'cause all this drinking isn't getting me anywhere with fixing the bike) I realized he might be referring to an ACTUAL screwdriver so I took one and waddled off to the garage;

- the sound seems to be coming from somewhere directly below the gas tank and in the middle of the engine, placing the ear/screwdriver on either side of the engine's side covers and on the chain tensioner itself didn't seem to amplify the noise
- the oil seems (smells) ok

Gonna lift the tank and check further tomorrow

 

[bricksrheavy]

Afterthought;
One of the 8 screws holding the airbox cover was stripped a while ago (I still put it back in), and I had removed the cover 2-3 weeks ago to put a new battery in.

Is it possible that the engine is sucking so much air on the intake that the cover is whistling on lower RPMs?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

You do use a real long handle screwdriver to help pinpoint noises. (Wasn't messing with ya- )

Re the oil, yes, exactly... A leaky injector, diluting the engine oil with fuel does happen. I had that happen with my FZ years ago. Changed the oil and the "making oil" that smelled like fuel stopped on it's own(perhaps my added dose of Ring Free helped).


Cliff, I think the noise he's referring to is the whine, like an alternator on an older car that whines when it fails. Brick can you confirm?


As for the intake cover, no that's not the noise. Even with that cover off, you wouldn't get that whine.

It sounds like a roller bearing failure whining when revving. Crankshaft/camshaft are all solid bearings...

The clutch assembly has some roller and needle bearing's as does the starter Sprague (sp?).

**If you hold in the clutch, does the noise go away???**


.

 

[bricksrheavy]

You do use a real long handle screwdriver to help pinpoint noises. (Wasn't messing with ya- )

Hehehe, I know

...
Cliff, I think the noise he's referring to is the whine, like an alternator on an older car that whines when it fails. Brick can you confirm?

Yes, it's a distinct, almost like a supercharger whine

...
The clutch assembly has some roller and needle bearing's as does the starter Sprague (sp?).

**If you hold in the clutch, does the noise go away???**
.

The noise is the same whether I pull the clutch in or not

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

There was a thread about disconnecting/removing the clutch assembly, to isolate it from the engine. So you could run the engine W/O the clutch spinning one of the transmission shafts (just to isolate the entire transmission).

If you can't find anything prior, you may want to pull the clutch cover off and do some at least inspecting (potentially sloppy clutch hub)..
@FinalImpact may have some thoughts. He should respond.

I kinda doubt it, but check (with your screw driver) around the top of the valve cover, where the cam chain is. I'm wondering if possibly the cam chain guide, (attached to the valve cover), maybe have come loose and is rubbing against the chain.

Dumping the oil (in a clean container) may reveal something amiss. (Being fairly new oil, you can filter and re-use it).

 

[bricksrheavy]

So I lifted the tank today, checked all the vacuum hoses - nothing. Started the engine with the tank up so I can look for the whine more easily and realise now the sound is barely audible, after looking for a couple of minutes I start worrying about the fuel pump possibly overheating so I switch the engine off for a couple of minutes.

Start it back up, no whine WHATSOEVER, try revving it, nothing. Engine off, engine on, rev again - nothing.

Put the tank back, push the bike to the parking spot, start the engine one more time and nothing again.

So it's off to the mechanic's next, and I can just bet it won't whine when I get there knowing my luck

 

[Motogiro]

So I lifted the tank today, checked all the vacuum hoses - nothing. Started the engine with the tank up so I can look for the whine more easily and realise now the sound is barely audible, after looking for a couple of minutes I start worrying about the fuel pump possibly overheating so I switch the engine off for a couple of minutes.

Start it back up, no whine WHATSOEVER, try revving it, nothing. Engine off, engine on, rev again - nothing.

Put the tank back, push the bike to the parking spot, start the engine one more time and nothing again.

So it's off to the mechanic's next, and I can just bet it won't whine when I get there knowing my luck

Pull the airbox and inspect the throttle bodies and the airbox. If it's a reed like noise there could be something with the airbox or the airbox seal.

 

[bricksrheavy]

Pull the airbox and inspect the throttle bodies and the airbox. If it's a reed like noise there could be something with the airbox or the airbox seal.

I'm kicking myself for not doing it today while I had the tank up, but I'll get back into it tomorrow, really hoping it's something benign like that.

 

[gulfpete]

Could it be that loose screw vibrating ?

I like to hold my phone against a screwdriver and record the sound Then use audacity to see the waveform.
Did this a while ago trying to diagnose a bent crankshaft, video here https://youtu.be/qfw9BCuzbo0

This is what I got off audacity, screwdriver on the clutch cover

I could see 0.06 seconds between the clicks which is 1000 rpm and the bike was running at about that so I knew it was clicking once per revolution

This is screwdriver on the near side of motor

The clicks a lot smaller there so knew it wasn't there.

Good luck, Pete.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Their not going to be able to find anything if it's quiet now. But as noted, double check under the tank as what ever you touched under there, very possibly was the issue.

I doubt that screw was the issue but a lil Loctite or silicone will keep it quiet and in place...

I kinda liked the super charger sound!!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Could it be that loose screw vibrating ?

I like to hold my phone against a screwdriver and record the sound Then use audacity to see the waveform.
Did this a while ago trying to diagnose a bent crankshaft, video here https://youtu.be/qfw9BCuzbo0

This is what I got off audacity, screwdriver on the clutch cover
View attachment 68640
I could see 0.06 seconds between the clicks which is 1000 rpm and the bike was running at about that so I knew it was clicking once per revolution

This is screwdriver on the near side of motor
View attachment 68641
The clicks a lot smaller there so knew it wasn't there.

Good luck, Pete.

Was that your bike Pete, you had to pull the engine apart for that noise? I don't remember seeing any follow up posts on it...

 

[gulfpete]

Yes, forgot about that bit.

That was mine before the replacement motor, still together but the screwdriver on the phone amplifies the noise heaps.

I wrote about it here
http://www.600riders.com/forum/garage-mechanical-help/57714-engine-swap.html#post632913

 

[FinalImpact]

No clue what whine is.... much less why it went away....

It does have that supercharger/alternator type whine.... That is something else...

Keep us posted.

 

[bricksrheavy]

Started the bike this morning - no sound. Go for a 60 mile ride, check after - nothing.

Two hours later I remove the airbox, check all the vacuum hoses, literally stare at the space under the tank for 20 minutes looking - nothing

Checked the entire length of the exhaust system looking for loose screws&leaks - nothing

Put everything back, start the bike - nothing, then I kneel next to it and realize it's still there but you can only hear it when you start opening the throttle but it disappears as soon as you go past ~2000-3000 k revs.

I'm done, gonna take it to the mechanic during the week and see what he thinks.

Thank you for all your help&suggestions, I owe a LOT of drinks around this forum!

 

[zixaq]

Since it went away when you lifted the tank, check for loose material under the tank. It's possible it was partially blocking the intake.

Also check for air leaks around the intake manifold. Spray some carb cleaner/wd40 around the bottom of the airbox. If the engine goes screwy, you've got a leak.