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  1. #11
    tejkowskit (OP)
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    Re: Valve Clearance ADJUSTMENT

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Paragon View Post
    Great thread!

    Interesting findings with your Valve Clearances though. With mileage, clearances usually shrink, especially exhaust valves. I find it a bit odd that nearly all the exhaust clearances were too large. Ive never checked valves on a newer modern 4cyl, just older air cooled jap bikes and atv's
    How many miles are on the bike? Do you think that someone may have done a valve clearance in the past and opened them up too much or do you think it maybe came right from factory with too large of clearances?
    I bought the bike used in May 2011 with ~2500 miles on it and did the check with just under 27000 miles. Previous owner had all receipts from being serviced, and they never had it opened. I was shocked at what I found, too. I am convinced there was an error during assembly since ALL 8 were so far off, but close to each other.
    Even when I went to pick up the new shims from the dealer he said he's never sold or had to use that many shims of that size. He said he's never seen that many valves so far off, especially loose.

    Quote Originally Posted by FinalImpact View Post

    So now its down to the cam and tappet wearing away. Those are the highest shear points in this engine. Granted the backside of the cam is under no pressure but the lifter bucket is subject to wear from the rotating the lobes ramp against a fixed object which includes the valves spring pressure. In this case, I suspect most of the clearance comes from the lifter bucket face being worn down by the cam lobe. I mean it just doesn't leave much else to loose ground. JM2C....

    In short, the quality materials (Cam, bucket, valve, and valve seat) AND of oil and filter used can show up here. If the filter is not removing particulates from circulation it could induce wear and oils left in too long or those having lower concentrations zinc or dialkyldithiophosphate (keeps cam/tappets alive) could show more wear... I'd imagine the break in cycle may play a role too??
    The bucket or lobe wearing out is all I could think of, too. The buckets did not look like they endured much wear; they were all in great condition with no signs of heavy wear. I was going to check the lobe dimensions, but my micrometer is only a 1" and the lobes dimensions according to the service manual are 1.278-1.282" with a limit of 1.276". The lobes also did not appear to be heavily worn.

    I use shell rotella t 15w40 and a puralator or Bosch filter (the ones recommended in the oil filter thread), and do oil changes per manual recommendations. Change oil every 4000 and filter every 8000. I sometimes ride semi aggressively, but for the most part I'm easy on the bike.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marthy View Post
    The only reason I can see adding clearance is carbon built up. I remember a while back doing some googling about adjusting the desmo valves on Ducati. (Boss bike) and first thing they said is to go out and drive that thing like you stole it before even checking the clearance to clean up any carbon built up.

    Kind of wondering...
    I hadn't thought of this, but I find it hard to believe there is that much carbon buildup on a 27000 mile bike that only gets premium gasoline. I haven't been experiencing any symptoms that go along with carbon build up either.
    Last edited by tejkowskit; 07-15-2014 at 09:27 AM.

  2. #12
    2 Da Street, Knobs R Gone FinalImpact's Avatar
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    Re: Valve Clearance ADJUSTMENT

    Quote Originally Posted by tejkowskit View Post
    << snip >>
    I hadn't thought of this, but I find it hard to believe there is that much carbon buildup on a 27000 mile bike that only gets premium gasoline. I haven't been experiencing any symptoms that go along with carbon build up either.
    That ^^ is more a product of how how its ridden so it could have build up in 500 miles. i.e. from riding style of:
    low rpm, lugging, and chugging about being one extreme
    vs higher RPMs (think increased volume through the ports)

    Of course the state of tune and fuel maps play a role too.

    I mean, you've seen when someone "romps on cage engine" to pass another vehicle and all the carbon blows out of the exhaust? Same thing. Increased velocity keeps the ports cleaner.

    There are plenty on here who rarely exercise the whole RPM range as the norm in their riding style so those could be candidates....

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  4. #13
    tejkowskit (OP)
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    Re: Valve Clearance ADJUSTMENT

    Quote Originally Posted by FinalImpact View Post
    That ^^ is more a product of how how its ridden so it could have build up in 500 miles. i.e. from riding style of:
    low rpm, lugging, and chugging about being one extreme
    vs higher RPMs (think increased volume through the ports)

    Of course the state of tune and fuel maps play a role too.

    I mean, you've seen when someone "romps on cage engine" to pass another vehicle and all the carbon blows out of the exhaust? Same thing. Increased velocity keeps the ports cleaner.

    There are plenty on here who rarely exercise the whole RPM range as the norm in their riding style so those could be candidates....
    Not that I never gun it..few times a week, but certainly not every ride on a day to day basis! Perhaps this is my excuse to begin? Haha I see a sharp increase in speeding tickets in my future

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  6. #14
    Thats right, Paragon! The_Paragon's Avatar
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    Re: Valve Clearance ADJUSTMENT

    Quote Originally Posted by FinalImpact View Post
    Old school things used to tighten up as the valve seat and valve facing wore away. Modern seats have induction hardened facings so less material is lost. To some extent it may be work hardened from being pounded on by the spring closing the valve. Anyway - That controls that aspect of the valve getting deeper into the head and taking away clearances.

    The forces on the stem and bucket are a direct "push" with no angles to induce wear like for example a rocker arm or pushrod, etc.


    So now its down to the cam and tappet wearing away. Those are the highest shear points in this engine. Granted the backside of the cam is under no pressure but the lifter bucket is subject to wear from the rotating the lobes ramp against a fixed object which includes the valves spring pressure. In this case, I suspect most of the clearance comes from the lifter bucket face being worn down by the cam lobe. I mean it just doesn't leave much else to loose ground. JM2C....

    In short, the quality materials (Cam, bucket, valve, and valve seat) AND of oil and filter used can show up here. If the filter is not removing particulates from circulation it could induce wear and oils left in too long or those having lower concentrations zinc or dialkyldithiophosphate (keeps cam/tappets alive) could show more wear... I'd imagine the break in cycle may play a role too??
    I have learned something new today! I can now take the rest of the day off of work and ride my motorcycle!

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  8. #15
    2 Da Street, Knobs R Gone FinalImpact's Avatar
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    Re: Valve Clearance ADJUSTMENT

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Paragon View Post
    I have learned something new today! I can now take the rest of the day off of work and ride my motorcycle!
    ^^ on the topic if educational....

    Although the cams lobes look to be square or flat across the point of lift they are not. The lobes are actually ground at a slight angle to induce rotation into the bucket. If the bucket doesn't rotate, the cam would grind a hole right through it. If you were to watch the valve-train assembly while the engine is running you would see all the buckets rotating.

    To some extent you can see the wear pattern has a rotation or swirl too it. It is attempting to rotate the valve against the springs pressure and it does to some extent. So there is a very minor amount of wear between the bucket, shim, and valve.


    Should the buckets fail to rotate, its doom for the camshaft.

    FWIW: Zinc it the primary ingredient in the oil that keeps the shear wiping action of cam and bucket from destroying themselves. However, Zinc is bad for catalytic converters - hence many manufactures use roller camshafts to reduce the need for that ingredient in the oil. It also frees up some horse power.

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  10. #16
    tejkowskit (OP)
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    Re: Valve Clearance ADJUSTMENT

    Quote Originally Posted by FinalImpact View Post
    ^^ on the topic if educational....

    Although the cams lobes look to be square or flat across the point of lift they are not. The lobes are actually ground at a slight angle to induce rotation into the bucket.
    Very interesting bit of info. I definitely noticed the swirls on the underside of the buckets and it is pretty clear in the picture!

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  12. #17
    2 Da Street, Knobs R Gone FinalImpact's Avatar
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    Re: Valve Clearance ADJUSTMENT

    Noticed the FSM says to remove the "Throttle Bodies!!!" I suspect many shop quotes labor to remove them while in fact @tejkowskit shows its clearly not necessary!

    Point: ASK what you're being charged for if you're the paying kind and ask "did you really remove those T/Bs??" When you look at your bill. It might save you a few bucks...
    08 Raven w/a few mods...
    R6 Forks, R1 Rear Shock (revalved), 6 Ignition Advance, S1 CAT free Header, SS Mid-Pipe, 2Bro Exhaust, AIS block off plates, Bazzaz Z-Fi Fuel Controller & Z-AFM Data Logger, Air Box mod, CR10E Plugs, 48-Tooth Rear Sprocket, FZ1 Bars, Spider Grips, Adj levers, Powder Coated -Triple, Bars & Rear Sets, Solid mounted rear-sets w/knurled pegs, Dual Headlight, Tail Tidy, LED Combo Brake & Directionals, LED POD lights & Tinted PUIG Wind Screen!

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  14. #18
    2 Da Street, Knobs R Gone FinalImpact's Avatar
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    Re: Valve Clearance ADJUSTMENT

    Was at the shop and asked how if they'd trade shims!

    $4.00 a shim to trade
    $8.00 a shim to buy w/out trade.

    Promoting thread to sticky!
    08 Raven w/a few mods...
    R6 Forks, R1 Rear Shock (revalved), 6 Ignition Advance, S1 CAT free Header, SS Mid-Pipe, 2Bro Exhaust, AIS block off plates, Bazzaz Z-Fi Fuel Controller & Z-AFM Data Logger, Air Box mod, CR10E Plugs, 48-Tooth Rear Sprocket, FZ1 Bars, Spider Grips, Adj levers, Powder Coated -Triple, Bars & Rear Sets, Solid mounted rear-sets w/knurled pegs, Dual Headlight, Tail Tidy, LED Combo Brake & Directionals, LED POD lights & Tinted PUIG Wind Screen!

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  16. #19
    tejkowskit (OP)
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    Re: Valve Clearance ADJUSTMENT

    Quote Originally Posted by FinalImpact View Post
    Was at the shop and asked how if they'd trade shims!

    $4.00 a shim to trade
    $8.00 a shim to buy w/out trade.

    Promoting thread to sticky!
    Ooh thanks for the sticky!

    I remember when I went in with my shims I was told they don't do an even trade, but they ended up discounting traded shims like your shop said they'd do. Those prices sound similar to what I paid, too.

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  18. #20
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    Re: Valve Clearance ADJUSTMENT

    Quote Originally Posted by FinalImpact View Post
    Noticed the FSM says to remove the "Throttle Bodies!!!" I suspect many shop quotes labor to remove them while in fact @tejkowskit shows its clearly not necessary!

    Point: ASK what you're being charged for if you're the paying kind and ask "did you really remove those T/Bs??" When you look at your bill. It might save you a few bucks...
    I removed the TB's when I checked mine, can't remember if it helped at all, but I was following the FSM. Not a hard job, except mine were effectively glued on. Took an hour of prying and praying before the f'ers came out.
    '06 FZ6 - 115k km, sold but not forgotten
    '07 FZ1 - 60k km, just not the same as the '6

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