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Old 02-07-2013, 10:14 AM   #1
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Direct Injection

Are any of the Big4 (or BMW, Ducati, etc.) doing putting it on motorcycles? Ive been researching GDI (gasoline direct injection) vs Port FI for a project that im working on for one of my classes, and the only bike i know of with GDI is the Motus MST with the Katech KMV-4 engine (1600cc's of bad*ssery btw). i was kind of wondering with the large budgets of racing efforts and the performance increases of GDI, are GP/WSBK teams using it? i understand it means retooling and that much higher quality materials are required but if the trend is moving that way for racing in cars, why not bikes?

personally I thik a 5-valve, crossplane, GDI R1 would be sweet.

whadda yall think?
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:32 AM   #2
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Re: Direct Injection

I've been wondering the same thing about motorcycles adopting direct injection. Better fueling, more power, better gas mileage. Seems like a no brainer! I wonder if there is a packaging issue or weight.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:50 AM   #3
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Re: Direct Injection

The problem with GDI is that there are RPM limits, which is why the Motus has a redline of only 8500 RPM..
Both BMW, and Kawi are working on this, (probably more too) but so far it has been a no go..
The cost of the very high pressure injectors, and the size they need to be to get that fuel squeezed in there has been a problem too.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:50 AM   #4
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Re: Direct Injection

I think the biggest factor preventing this from being adapted into mainstream use in both cars and especially bikes is the amount of fuel pressure required. Most port fuel injected vehicles run on a fuel pressure of about 40psi. The fuel pump only has to provide that pressure and a sufficient volume of gasoline to keep the injectors and ECU happy. With direct injection, the PSI required is sometimes as high as 1000psi and the pumps are obviously more expensive and power hungry plus the fuel lines and other ancillary equipment and parts to handle this high of a pressure equals more money. Diesel engines use direct injection as an inherent part of their design and have been doing it for decades, but ask anyone who has ever had to replace a fuel pump or fuel filters on a diesel pickup how much that cost them ($$$$$). I bet we will see it in the future but since you're asking why we haven't seen it already that's my assumption.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:11 AM   #5
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Re: Direct Injection

In 1955 M-Benz used a Bosh machanical direct fuel injection on the Gullwing.

I'm just amaze how good the cars are built today. Bare with me here. They ate made to be thrown away every 8-10 years but still. I remember not so ling ago changing oil, plugs, cap, rotors on my Civic every 3k miles or so. I just bough a 2012 Ford Fiesta. All I need to do is change oil every 10K. Spark Plugs are due at 100K and timing belt at 150K.

So technically I can drive that thing until it need plugs then trade it in.

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Old 02-07-2013, 11:32 AM   #6
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Re: Direct Injection

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Originally Posted by famous556 View Post
With direct injection, the PSI required is sometimes as high as 1000psi and the pumps are obviously more expensive and power hungry plus the fuel lines and other ancillary equipment and parts to handle this high of a pressure equals more money. Diesel engines use direct injection as an inherent part of their design and have been doing it for decades, but ask anyone who has ever had to replace a fuel pump or fuel filters on a diesel pickup how much that cost them ($$$$$)
Yes, the injectors on my 05 Cummins TD are about $500 ea..(X6!) they are also about 8" long..that and the diesel doenst rev like a bike would need to.
The fuel pump is like $2000 just on its own..(man I hope I never have to replace it..)
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:14 PM   #7
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Re: Direct Injection

..and, Direct Injection has a downside. There have been increases in carbon build up on intake valves because there is no fuel being sprayed on them, washing off the gunk from the Exhaust Gas Re-circulation. The most obvious benefit in GDI is the ability to run higher compression rations...not a problem on the fizzer.

I think the best advancement to bring to the 2-wheelers would be real closed-loop fueling. MAF telling the ECU how long to open the injectors, then the O2 sensor feeding back the results for fuel trim.

My 2 cents worth.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:10 PM   #8
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Re: Direct Injection

/\That is what my BMW already has. So it is being done. (O2 sensor, ect..)
That and a knock sensor, so you can really use the advantages of the high test fuel..
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:58 PM   #9
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Re: Direct Injection

Thinking most of the new engines have direct fuel injection. The Ford Eco-Boost motors have it. For bikes they seem to be able to get the HP figures up there, biggest advantage of DI would be increased efficiency (gas mileage). The Motus is a very interesting bike. A bike that can be loaded with bags and gear and ridden for days and then take to bags off and go thru the canyons with the sport bikes. However the price is out of my range.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:24 AM   #10
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Re: Direct Injection

Quote:
Originally Posted by famous556 View Post
I think the biggest factor preventing this from being adapted into mainstream use in both cars and especially bikes is the amount of fuel pressure required. Most port fuel injected vehicles run on a fuel pressure of about 40psi. The fuel pump only has to provide that pressure and a sufficient volume of gasoline to keep the injectors and ECU happy. With direct injection, the PSI required is sometimes as high as 1000psi and the pumps are obviously more expensive and power hungry plus the fuel lines and other ancillary equipment and parts to handle this high of a pressure equals more money. Diesel engines use direct injection as an inherent part of their design and have been doing it for decades, but ask anyone who has ever had to replace a fuel pump or fuel filters on a diesel pickup how much that cost them ($$$$$). I bet we will see it in the future but since you're asking why we haven't seen it already that's my assumption.
actually its more like 1500-3000 psi.


and there are advances being made in head design to swirl the air to mix the gas with the air since the mixing time is shorter, and turbos add to the swirling effect making GDI even more efficient. and if there is an rpm limit, then it would be great for something like a VTR, SV1000, SuperTenere, Ducati, any cruiser, BoxMWs, etc. it would make since that Kawi with their parallel twin and Beemer's Boxer design would benefit the most. but most 1000cc supersports dont rev as high as the 600s and usually redline at 10.5-11.5K rpm. but with the increase of low end power and midrange you could build a lower RPM engine and make the gearing a little longer. since the GDI system does however react faster than the PFI setup, why would there be an RPM cap? it seems like it would be even better at higher RPMs. also the thing with the valves doesnt seem to hold up either as the Motus has 100K mile valve intervals (thats 4x as long as the Yami's impressive 26K)
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